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Only the Quran is guaranteed to be unchanged (but the interpretations and translations are not so guaranteed), the Hadiths are not. The proper perspective is t

Only the Quran is guaranteed to be unchanged (but the interpretations and translations are not so guaranteed), the Hadiths are not. The proper perspective is that if the Hadith and Quran are in conflict, the Quran is the authoratative source. From our Sufi perspective, the Hadiths are a lot of game of telephone. And if the Quran is difficult to apply, remember that compassion is the entire purpose of all God's religions.

deleted 2y ago
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Workaccount2 2y ago
>And if the Quran is difficult to apply, remember that compassion is the entire purpose of all God's religions. Clearly a few of gods prophets dropped the ball pretty hard on this one. To bad he isn't interested in correcting the record.
- MrMcCall 2y ago
  God has left the truth in our hands to honor or disrespect as per our free will's choices. When a person truly loves God, they will love other human beings. If a person wants worldly power and self-superiority, they will live in destructive ignorance, no matter what path they claim to follow. What a person says and does is little compared to what their intentions reveal. That is why God always looks at our heart to determine our worth.
syspec 2y ago
> And if the Quran is difficult to apply, remember that compassion is the entire purpose of all God's religions. Or, in practice, the opposite
handfuloflight 2y ago
> From our Sufi perspective, the Hadiths are a lot of game of telephone. Devaluing ahadith is a minority position in Sufism. The transmission of authentic hadith is not dissimilar to the transmission of the Quran.
- MrMcCall 2y ago
  Compassion has always been the minority position for all human beings, regardless of religiosity. That's why the world is the way it is. For most people, selfishness for their group is the reason they claim any religious affiliation whatsoever. The Quran says, "Do not break into sects." And yet, Sunnis and Shiites are at each other's throats. The sects that the Quran are referring to, however, are any sects amongh human beings. We are one human race, and we are to love each other regardless of our culture of origin. And we are to defend the innocent and help the poor, irrespective of which side either claim as their own. And, no, the hadith do not have the same purity as the Quran, although the interpretations of the Quran do not have any guarantees either.
  - handfuloflight 2y ago
    I did not say the hadith have the same purity as the Quran, that being an argument with nebulous and undefined terms, we don't know what "purity" means here. Rather I said it has similar methods of transmission, that being oral transmission. The same groups of people who transmitted ahadith also transmitted the Quran. Doubting their transmission in one instance puts doubt on the other. Yes hadith have been forged but there is a whole science developed and employed to grade their veracity, the veracity of which if rejected, especially in the case of mass transmission also rejects the veracity of Quranic transmission which is a tawatur (mass) transmission. > although the interpretations of the Quran do not have any guarantees either. Then that applies to your own interpretations as well. Quran 49:13 contradicts your broad understanding of the meaning of sects as does the concept of 'ummah' which appears 6 times in the Quran. Distinctions among human beings is ordained from above and thus distinctions alone cannot constitute error which is what I am reading from your understanding of what sects mean. I don't understand what the point of making that argument is, putting the Sunnis and Shiis at odds with each other and then invoking the term Sufi. Your assessment doesn't add up, with all due respect, unless your claim is that your Sufism is the one true Islam. That just goes back to reinforcing sects. Moreover, Sufism historically developed within the framework of Sunni Islam, with most major turuq operating within Sunni legal schools and their founders being prominent Sunni scholars. So invoking Sufism as somehow transcending or negating these divisions misunderstands its historical development and position within Islamic tradition. And for the record, I am initiated with a Sufi tariqa.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

Workaccount2 2y ago

>And if the Quran is difficult to apply, remember that compassion is the entire purpose of all God's religions. Clearly a few of gods prophets dropped the ball pretty hard on this one. To bad he isn't interested in correcting the record.

MrMcCall 2y ago
God has left the truth in our hands to honor or disrespect as per our free will's choices. When a person truly loves God, they will love other human beings. If a person wants worldly power and self-superiority, they will live in destructive ignorance, no matter what path they claim to follow. What a person says and does is little compared to what their intentions reveal. That is why God always looks at our heart to determine our worth.

syspec 2y ago

> And if the Quran is difficult to apply, remember that compassion is the entire purpose of all God's religions. Or, in practice, the opposite

handfuloflight 2y ago

> From our Sufi perspective, the Hadiths are a lot of game of telephone. Devaluing ahadith is a minority position in Sufism. The transmission of authentic hadith is not dissimilar to the transmission of the Quran.

MrMcCall 2y ago
Compassion has always been the minority position for all human beings, regardless of religiosity. That's why the world is the way it is. For most people, selfishness for their group is the reason they claim any religious affiliation whatsoever. The Quran says, "Do not break into sects." And yet, Sunnis and Shiites are at each other's throats. The sects that the Quran are referring to, however, are any sects amongh human beings. We are one human race, and we are to love each other regardless of our culture of origin. And we are to defend the innocent and help the poor, irrespective of which side either claim as their own. And, no, the hadith do not have the same purity as the Quran, although the interpretations of the Quran do not have any guarantees either.
- handfuloflight 2y ago
  I did not say the hadith have the same purity as the Quran, that being an argument with nebulous and undefined terms, we don't know what "purity" means here. Rather I said it has similar methods of transmission, that being oral transmission. The same groups of people who transmitted ahadith also transmitted the Quran. Doubting their transmission in one instance puts doubt on the other. Yes hadith have been forged but there is a whole science developed and employed to grade their veracity, the veracity of which if rejected, especially in the case of mass transmission also rejects the veracity of Quranic transmission which is a tawatur (mass) transmission. > although the interpretations of the Quran do not have any guarantees either. Then that applies to your own interpretations as well. Quran 49:13 contradicts your broad understanding of the meaning of sects as does the concept of 'ummah' which appears 6 times in the Quran. Distinctions among human beings is ordained from above and thus distinctions alone cannot constitute error which is what I am reading from your understanding of what sects mean. I don't understand what the point of making that argument is, putting the Sunnis and Shiis at odds with each other and then invoking the term Sufi. Your assessment doesn't add up, with all due respect, unless your claim is that your Sufism is the one true Islam. That just goes back to reinforcing sects. Moreover, Sufism historically developed within the framework of Sunni Islam, with most major turuq operating within Sunni legal schools and their founders being prominent Sunni scholars. So invoking Sufism as somehow transcending or negating these divisions misunderstands its historical development and position within Islamic tradition. And for the record, I am initiated with a Sufi tariqa.