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In a vacuum I would agree with you, but it fails in lots of predictable ways, and doesnt really offer any utility as a new design. And where they tried to engin

In a vacuum I would agree with you, but it fails in lots of predictable ways, and doesnt really offer any utility as a new design. And where they tried to engineer around these issues they often over engineered instead of removing the problem. I honestly like the way it looks, but I am happy I never preordered it or anything. The reviews are shocking. Even the positive reviews tend to hyperfocus on situations that can be capably dealt with by a standard hatchback. You can take a honda jazz across more terrain. Its a failure, one that was likely very familiar to HN members. I am sure that internally engineers made every single one of these issues very apparent to management and they shipped anyway.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> doesnt really offer any utility as a new design This is true of most automobile design. There are legitimate criticisms of Musk and Tesla. "I don't like how someone else's car looks" is not one of them.
- stephen_g 2y ago
  The word 'utility' in the comment you're replying to specifically means how the design functions, not how it looks. For example, it's a truck that's design makes it worse for carrying cargo in the tray than a standard truck.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > word 'utility' specifically means how it functions, not how it looks Yes. Not offering utility in design is common in cars. Most people don’t buy a truck to haul. Most people don’t buy an off-roader to go off road. (Most people don’t buy a sports car to race.)
    - jmb99 2y ago
      Even taken at face value: > Most people don’t buy a truck to haul. But if they do need to haul or tow something, they can. > Most people don’t buy an off-roader to go off road. But if they do need to go off-road, they can. > Most people don’t buy a sports car to race. Sports cars can be enjoyed (relatively) legally on the street. Quick acceleration combined with very good handling and a sense of connection to the road is a feeling you can enjoy at 55mph. Many people won’t drive their sports cars to the limit, but they are still a more enjoyable driving experience than a regular car for people who care about that. A cybertruck can’t really haul things, it can’t really tow things, and it can’t be that fun to drive. I hope it’s at least comfortable, but based on my experience with their other vehicles, I doubt it.
      - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        Let me revise that: I’d be surprised if more than half of the trucks on the road have ever hauled anything. > cybertruck can’t really haul things, it can’t really tow things, and it can’t be that fun to drive This reminds me of people who complain about expensive garments being impractical. That isn’t the point. They’re articles of fashion. Same as most trucks and sports cars. Cybertruck is outselling the F-150 Lightning. Consumers don’t care about hypothetical utility.
        WindyMiller 2y ago
        > They’re articles of fashion. Hard to square this with: > There are legitimate criticisms of Musk and Tesla. "I don't like how someone else's car looks" is not one of them. Whether or not other people like your look is of course not the be-all and end-all of fashion, but it's certainly relevant. "I don't like how it looks" is a legitimate criticism of an article of fashion.
        s1artibartfast 2y ago
        I think this is an interesting point. What IS a criticism of fashion, and how should it be taken? "I dont like how this looks" isnt a universal truth, and isn't a prescription for others. It seems like with the CT, there is a vocal group of people who seem upset that others like them and that they exist at all. I seems to extend from "I dont like how it looks, and you cant either." I think they look cool and fun. Cost an utility wise, I'll take my contractor truck every time. I understand however that other people have more money and different priorities. I suspect what people are actually bothered by is the underlying reality that some people simply have an extra $80k to drop on a truck because that is cool and fun for them.
        WindyMiller 2y ago
        That doesn't explain why the Cybertruck bothers people more than other expensive things. And the rich have always been ready to express horror at the tastes of the poor (and even more so, the tastes of the slightly less rich). It can't all be about feeling hard done by. I think people tend to be grumpier about things they consider ugly if those things take up a large amount of public space. People get similarly riled by brutalist architecture. But really, there's nothing new about people having strong feelings about other people's tastes. Fashion is as much about communication as personal pleasure.
- aucisson_masque 2y ago
  It is tho. Car are symbols for most people, not just a tool that has 4 wheel. Cybertruck are the equivalent of a pair of thick nerdy glasses.
- protocolture 2y ago
  >There are legitimate criticisms of Musk and Tesla. "I don't like how someone else's car looks" is not one of them. I like how it looks. Its the everything else thats an issue.
fastball 2y ago
> but it fails in lots of predictable ways, and doesnt really offer any utility as a new design In what ways has it failed predictably? There are a number of things that could contribute to various failures/recalls that relate to utility provided by the (novel) design. For example the steer-by-wire system or the mid-voltage (48 V DC) electrical system. The main example of "this is just dumb design for no reason" is the recall due to the pedal cover sliding up and jamming, but that was only 1 out of 6.
- protocolture 2y ago
  Well cars generally get wet. The stainless steel getting tarnished in the rain is a predictable failure, even if we assume some of the ones showing rust are overblown. Not even the only cosmetic failure, it seems like the panels dont ship well, which should be very foreseeable. Needing a specialised Car Wash Mode to protect the interior. They very obviously saw the issue coming, did engineer around it. Any other car manufacturer would simply try and make the vehicle as watertight as possible in all scenarios. Frunk causing injuries. (I would add the word "frunk" is also a fail state but thats subjective) Theres hundreds of these, all you need to do is find a couple of cybertruck owners complaining without feeling the need to be defensive.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago

> doesnt really offer any utility as a new design This is true of most automobile design. There are legitimate criticisms of Musk and Tesla. "I don't like how someone else's car looks" is not one of them.

stephen_g 2y ago
The word 'utility' in the comment you're replying to specifically means how the design functions, not how it looks. For example, it's a truck that's design makes it worse for carrying cargo in the tray than a standard truck.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > word 'utility' specifically means how it functions, not how it looks Yes. Not offering utility in design is common in cars. Most people don’t buy a truck to haul. Most people don’t buy an off-roader to go off road. (Most people don’t buy a sports car to race.)
  - jmb99 2y ago
    Even taken at face value: > Most people don’t buy a truck to haul. But if they do need to haul or tow something, they can. > Most people don’t buy an off-roader to go off road. But if they do need to go off-road, they can. > Most people don’t buy a sports car to race. Sports cars can be enjoyed (relatively) legally on the street. Quick acceleration combined with very good handling and a sense of connection to the road is a feeling you can enjoy at 55mph. Many people won’t drive their sports cars to the limit, but they are still a more enjoyable driving experience than a regular car for people who care about that. A cybertruck can’t really haul things, it can’t really tow things, and it can’t be that fun to drive. I hope it’s at least comfortable, but based on my experience with their other vehicles, I doubt it.
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      Let me revise that: I’d be surprised if more than half of the trucks on the road have ever hauled anything. > cybertruck can’t really haul things, it can’t really tow things, and it can’t be that fun to drive This reminds me of people who complain about expensive garments being impractical. That isn’t the point. They’re articles of fashion. Same as most trucks and sports cars. Cybertruck is outselling the F-150 Lightning. Consumers don’t care about hypothetical utility.
      - WindyMiller 2y ago
        > They’re articles of fashion. Hard to square this with: > There are legitimate criticisms of Musk and Tesla. "I don't like how someone else's car looks" is not one of them. Whether or not other people like your look is of course not the be-all and end-all of fashion, but it's certainly relevant. "I don't like how it looks" is a legitimate criticism of an article of fashion.
        s1artibartfast 2y ago
        I think this is an interesting point. What IS a criticism of fashion, and how should it be taken? "I dont like how this looks" isnt a universal truth, and isn't a prescription for others. It seems like with the CT, there is a vocal group of people who seem upset that others like them and that they exist at all. I seems to extend from "I dont like how it looks, and you cant either." I think they look cool and fun. Cost an utility wise, I'll take my contractor truck every time. I understand however that other people have more money and different priorities. I suspect what people are actually bothered by is the underlying reality that some people simply have an extra $80k to drop on a truck because that is cool and fun for them.
        WindyMiller 2y ago
        That doesn't explain why the Cybertruck bothers people more than other expensive things. And the rich have always been ready to express horror at the tastes of the poor (and even more so, the tastes of the slightly less rich). It can't all be about feeling hard done by. I think people tend to be grumpier about things they consider ugly if those things take up a large amount of public space. People get similarly riled by brutalist architecture. But really, there's nothing new about people having strong feelings about other people's tastes. Fashion is as much about communication as personal pleasure.
aucisson_masque 2y ago
It is tho. Car are symbols for most people, not just a tool that has 4 wheel. Cybertruck are the equivalent of a pair of thick nerdy glasses.
protocolture 2y ago
>There are legitimate criticisms of Musk and Tesla. "I don't like how someone else's car looks" is not one of them. I like how it looks. Its the everything else thats an issue.

fastball 2y ago

> but it fails in lots of predictable ways, and doesnt really offer any utility as a new design In what ways has it failed predictably? There are a number of things that could contribute to various failures/recalls that relate to utility provided by the (novel) design. For example the steer-by-wire system or the mid-voltage (48 V DC) electrical system. The main example of "this is just dumb design for no reason" is the recall due to the pedal cover sliding up and jamming, but that was only 1 out of 6.

protocolture 2y ago
Well cars generally get wet. The stainless steel getting tarnished in the rain is a predictable failure, even if we assume some of the ones showing rust are overblown. Not even the only cosmetic failure, it seems like the panels dont ship well, which should be very foreseeable. Needing a specialised Car Wash Mode to protect the interior. They very obviously saw the issue coming, did engineer around it. Any other car manufacturer would simply try and make the vehicle as watertight as possible in all scenarios. Frunk causing injuries. (I would add the word "frunk" is also a fail state but thats subjective) Theres hundreds of these, all you need to do is find a couple of cybertruck owners complaining without feeling the need to be defensive.