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I saw my first Cybertruck the other day. It looked less weird in person than I expected it. It's a very different and new design. How many of the 91% we're com

by YZF 2y ago

I saw my first Cybertruck the other day. It looked less weird in person than I expected it. It's a very different and new design. How many of the 91% we're comparing to are completely new designs. What's the correct benchmark? Let's rewrite the headline. "A radical new EV design from Tesla, the Cybertruck, is already ahead of 9% of all 2024 vehicles in quality as it just ramps up production". I'll likely never own this - not my style. But I can appreciate doing things differently and being successful at that. Getting those gas guzzling truck owners to go electric would be nice too.

te_chris 2y ago
Radically new and stupid and should be illegal design. It’s a death machine for pedestrians.
- YZF 2y ago
  Aren't all trucks? Wouldn't the sensor suite and auto-braking make it maybe somewhat safer? Is this something that gets tested for by car manufacturers?
  - gibolt 2y ago
    Also, the hood + "grill" is significantly lower. A pedestrian would bounce (although uncomfortably) instead of hit by a wall and run over like most other trucks / SUVs.
    - Gigachad 2y ago
      As long as you aren’t sliced in half by the sharp corners.
  - Tepix 2y ago
    In Europe for one that are regulations that make sure that cars are as safe for pedestrians as possible.
- elmerfud 2y ago
  No more a death machine than a Cadillac Escalade or a Dodge ram truck. There's lots of criticisms you can make about the cybertruck that are exclusive to the cybertruck but this isn't one. This complaint is about bad drivers. The rise of all the driver assist technology is enabling bad drivers to believe that they are better than they are. This is across vehicle brands.
  - nahwut 2y ago
    The existence of other death machines that should not be legal does not undermine the parent's point that this death machine should be illegal. I don't think they said only the cyber truck should be illegal.
    - elmerfud 2y ago
      You're trying to say the machine itself is the problem, when it's not the machine it's the operator. You're trying to shift blame here.
      - yyuugg 2y ago
        The machine itself and the operator are a problem. It is an unnecessarily dangerous machine and the operators do not operate them safely.
krige 2y ago
[flagged]
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
protocolture 2y ago
In a vacuum I would agree with you, but it fails in lots of predictable ways, and doesnt really offer any utility as a new design. And where they tried to engineer around these issues they often over engineered instead of removing the problem. I honestly like the way it looks, but I am happy I never preordered it or anything. The reviews are shocking. Even the positive reviews tend to hyperfocus on situations that can be capably dealt with by a standard hatchback. You can take a honda jazz across more terrain. Its a failure, one that was likely very familiar to HN members. I am sure that internally engineers made every single one of these issues very apparent to management and they shipped anyway.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > doesnt really offer any utility as a new design This is true of most automobile design. There are legitimate criticisms of Musk and Tesla. "I don't like how someone else's car looks" is not one of them.
  - stephen_g 2y ago
    The word 'utility' in the comment you're replying to specifically means how the design functions, not how it looks. For example, it's a truck that's design makes it worse for carrying cargo in the tray than a standard truck.
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      > word 'utility' specifically means how it functions, not how it looks Yes. Not offering utility in design is common in cars. Most people don’t buy a truck to haul. Most people don’t buy an off-roader to go off road. (Most people don’t buy a sports car to race.)
      - jmb99 2y ago
        Even taken at face value: > Most people don’t buy a truck to haul. But if they do need to haul or tow something, they can. > Most people don’t buy an off-roader to go off road. But if they do need to go off-road, they can. > Most people don’t buy a sports car to race. Sports cars can be enjoyed (relatively) legally on the street. Quick acceleration combined with very good handling and a sense of connection to the road is a feeling you can enjoy at 55mph. Many people won’t drive their sports cars to the limit, but they are still a more enjoyable driving experience than a regular car for people who care about that. A cybertruck can’t really haul things, it can’t really tow things, and it can’t be that fun to drive. I hope it’s at least comfortable, but based on my experience with their other vehicles, I doubt it.
andrepd 2y ago
> Getting those gas guzzling truck owners to go electric would be nice too. Congratulations, you solved 1 issue related to car dependency and proliferation of huge vehicles, namely tailpipe emissions. Now the other 99 remain. The solution to gas guzzling trucks is "boring", it's good trains, it's protected bike lanes in urban environments, it's smaller and safer cars in less dense environments, etc. But these things don't make Mr Musk money :)
- gibolt 2y ago
  Trains will not enter American suburbs, nor will most truck drivers consider biking as a valid alternative. I'm all for better transit, but it doesn't change that the trucks/SUVs keep selling and getting more polluting, and will do so for decades as part of the fleet
  - nahwut 2y ago
    [dead]
  - cableshaft 2y ago
    Train stations are in many of the Chicago suburbs already and take on average 280,000[1] commuters to and from downtown Chicago on a daily basis (it's called the Metra system). Hell, I just found out those same commuter lines extend all the way north to Kenosha, Wisconsin, and east to South Bend, Indiana, so into neighboring states. I did know people who commuted to Chicago from Indiana everyday so that's not too surprising. [1]: https://metra.com/ridership-data https://metra.com/ridership-data
    - gibolt 2y ago
      They exist, but new ones aren't being regularly added...
      - cableshaft 2y ago
        Well at least for Chicago, they are actively extending one of their lines all the way west to Rockford (which is 90 miles away), which should start running in late 2027[1]. Like I'd have to drive an hour and a half to get to Rockford from where I'm at in the far Chicago suburbs. And I'd be driving past a lot of corn fields to do so. So that's pretty far. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockford_Intercity_Passenger_Rail https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockford_Intercity_Passenger_R...
jmyeet 2y ago
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder I guess. Personally I think they look hideous. That doesn't bother me. To each their own and all that. What does bother me are all the problems. Consumer Reports went into this. There are numerous videos about it. For example, it has steel panels but... an aluminium frame. That's an odd choice. If you're towing something heavy then up and down motion makes the frame prone to snapping. Big trucks (eg F150, F250, F350) exist because of a quirk in regulation where so-called "work vehicles" were exempted from emissions standards. This part is a real shame because the US doesn't have vehicles lik the Toyota Hilux, which actually have an equivalent tray size and would be much more economical to run. An electric truck may allow a smaller truck because it's not affected by emissions (obviously). Perhaps battery weight makes this impractical. It would be nice. I mean some people import Japanese K trucks now. Competition-wise the Ford F150 Lightning looks like a much better proposition. It looks like a truck. It's built on a proven frame. Still, sales seem to be weak. For work vehicles in particular (and, yes, a lot of trucks aren't work vehicles; they're essentially ornamental) could be quite limited by EV charging issues vs the convenience of filling up a tank of gas.
- AlchemistCamp 2y ago
  > "This part is a real shame because the US doesn't have vehicles like the Toyota Hilux" Yes! That was the first and only truck (or any car) I've ever owned! It was just called the "Toyota Pickup" in the US but it's the same model that was named "Hilux" in many other countries. I used it to drive ladder racks and paint around Denver while I was in the house painting business to pay my way through college. It had almost 200k miles on it when I gave it to my dad after I graduated and decided to move abroad. To the best of my knowledge, he's still driving it and when I last asked him about it several years ago, it had well over half a million miles on it. At least for autos made in the 90s, Toyota's quality was unmatched. My dad is a former plane mechanic and has undoubtedly extended its life, but I had no idea what I was doing and that pickup seemed virtually impervious to normal wear and tear. It's a shame it was discontinued in the US.
riffraff 2y ago
> is already ahead of 9% of all 2024 vehicles in quality but 90% of those 2024 vehicles are much cheaper, so you would expect a lower quality. Also remember the cybertruck was presented five years ago.
esalman 2y ago
The only people I know who were genuinely impressed by cybertruck are 1. My father in law who was visiting USA and does not know how to drive, and 2. My 3yo son.
BeefWellington 2y ago
I'll never buy one but I suspect a lot of the "AHA GOTCHA" attitude coming from more traditional car-oriented media is coming from a place of not liking an upstart. There's just a lot of easy things to point at with the Cybertruck because of what was promised vs what was delivered. This happens with model cars from other manufacturers too though what changes there is often more looks than promised functionality.
- jmb99 2y ago
  There’s a pretty big difference between traditional auto markers’ “concept cars” and Tesla in 2019 showing off what was supposed to be very close to the final production car. It was also supposed to start at $40k, be bulletproof, have shatterproof glass (at least that one was discredited the minute it was announced), have a boat mode, have over 500mile range, and have a bed ramp. And it was supposed to have a “exoskeleton” design that, spoiler alert, isn’t possible. That was not “here’s this neat concept,” that was “this is the car we’re going to sell you.” Everyone (or at least, everyone in my bubble) knew that every single thing was BS (except maybe the ramp), but still nearly two million people with enough money for a pre-order gobbled it up.
rsynnott 2y ago
> Let's rewrite the headline. "A radical new EV design from Tesla, the Cybertruck, is already ahead of 9% of all 2024 vehicles in quality as it just ramps up production". Today in damning with comically faint praise...

by YZF 2y ago

te_chris 2y ago

Radically new and stupid and should be illegal design. It’s a death machine for pedestrians.

YZF 2y ago
Aren't all trucks? Wouldn't the sensor suite and auto-braking make it maybe somewhat safer? Is this something that gets tested for by car manufacturers?
- gibolt 2y ago
  Also, the hood + "grill" is significantly lower. A pedestrian would bounce (although uncomfortably) instead of hit by a wall and run over like most other trucks / SUVs.
  - Gigachad 2y ago
    As long as you aren’t sliced in half by the sharp corners.
- Tepix 2y ago
  In Europe for one that are regulations that make sure that cars are as safe for pedestrians as possible.
elmerfud 2y ago
No more a death machine than a Cadillac Escalade or a Dodge ram truck. There's lots of criticisms you can make about the cybertruck that are exclusive to the cybertruck but this isn't one. This complaint is about bad drivers. The rise of all the driver assist technology is enabling bad drivers to believe that they are better than they are. This is across vehicle brands.
- nahwut 2y ago
  The existence of other death machines that should not be legal does not undermine the parent's point that this death machine should be illegal. I don't think they said only the cyber truck should be illegal.
  - elmerfud 2y ago
    You're trying to say the machine itself is the problem, when it's not the machine it's the operator. You're trying to shift blame here.
    - yyuugg 2y ago
      The machine itself and the operator are a problem. It is an unnecessarily dangerous machine and the operators do not operate them safely.

krige 2y ago

[flagged]

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

protocolture 2y ago

In a vacuum I would agree with you, but it fails in lots of predictable ways, and doesnt really offer any utility as a new design. And where they tried to engineer around these issues they often over engineered instead of removing the problem. I honestly like the way it looks, but I am happy I never preordered it or anything. The reviews are shocking. Even the positive reviews tend to hyperfocus on situations that can be capably dealt with by a standard hatchback. You can take a honda jazz across more terrain. Its a failure, one that was likely very familiar to HN members. I am sure that internally engineers made every single one of these issues very apparent to management and they shipped anyway.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> doesnt really offer any utility as a new design This is true of most automobile design. There are legitimate criticisms of Musk and Tesla. "I don't like how someone else's car looks" is not one of them.
- stephen_g 2y ago
  The word 'utility' in the comment you're replying to specifically means how the design functions, not how it looks. For example, it's a truck that's design makes it worse for carrying cargo in the tray than a standard truck.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > word 'utility' specifically means how it functions, not how it looks Yes. Not offering utility in design is common in cars. Most people don’t buy a truck to haul. Most people don’t buy an off-roader to go off road. (Most people don’t buy a sports car to race.)
    - jmb99 2y ago
      Even taken at face value: > Most people don’t buy a truck to haul. But if they do need to haul or tow something, they can. > Most people don’t buy an off-roader to go off road. But if they do need to go off-road, they can. > Most people don’t buy a sports car to race. Sports cars can be enjoyed (relatively) legally on the street. Quick acceleration combined with very good handling and a sense of connection to the road is a feeling you can enjoy at 55mph. Many people won’t drive their sports cars to the limit, but they are still a more enjoyable driving experience than a regular car for people who care about that. A cybertruck can’t really haul things, it can’t really tow things, and it can’t be that fun to drive. I hope it’s at least comfortable, but based on my experience with their other vehicles, I doubt it.

andrepd 2y ago

> Getting those gas guzzling truck owners to go electric would be nice too. Congratulations, you solved 1 issue related to car dependency and proliferation of huge vehicles, namely tailpipe emissions. Now the other 99 remain. The solution to gas guzzling trucks is "boring", it's good trains, it's protected bike lanes in urban environments, it's smaller and safer cars in less dense environments, etc. But these things don't make Mr Musk money :)

gibolt 2y ago
Trains will not enter American suburbs, nor will most truck drivers consider biking as a valid alternative. I'm all for better transit, but it doesn't change that the trucks/SUVs keep selling and getting more polluting, and will do so for decades as part of the fleet
- nahwut 2y ago
  [dead]
- cableshaft 2y ago
  Train stations are in many of the Chicago suburbs already and take on average 280,000[1] commuters to and from downtown Chicago on a daily basis (it's called the Metra system). Hell, I just found out those same commuter lines extend all the way north to Kenosha, Wisconsin, and east to South Bend, Indiana, so into neighboring states. I did know people who commuted to Chicago from Indiana everyday so that's not too surprising. [1]: https://metra.com/ridership-data https://metra.com/ridership-data
  - gibolt 2y ago
    They exist, but new ones aren't being regularly added...
    - cableshaft 2y ago
      Well at least for Chicago, they are actively extending one of their lines all the way west to Rockford (which is 90 miles away), which should start running in late 2027[1]. Like I'd have to drive an hour and a half to get to Rockford from where I'm at in the far Chicago suburbs. And I'd be driving past a lot of corn fields to do so. So that's pretty far. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockford_Intercity_Passenger_Rail https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockford_Intercity_Passenger_R...

jmyeet 2y ago

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder I guess. Personally I think they look hideous. That doesn't bother me. To each their own and all that. What does bother me are all the problems. Consumer Reports went into this. There are numerous videos about it. For example, it has steel panels but... an aluminium frame. That's an odd choice. If you're towing something heavy then up and down motion makes the frame prone to snapping. Big trucks (eg F150, F250, F350) exist because of a quirk in regulation where so-called "work vehicles" were exempted from emissions standards. This part is a real shame because the US doesn't have vehicles lik the Toyota Hilux, which actually have an equivalent tray size and would be much more economical to run. An electric truck may allow a smaller truck because it's not affected by emissions (obviously). Perhaps battery weight makes this impractical. It would be nice. I mean some people import Japanese K trucks now. Competition-wise the Ford F150 Lightning looks like a much better proposition. It looks like a truck. It's built on a proven frame. Still, sales seem to be weak. For work vehicles in particular (and, yes, a lot of trucks aren't work vehicles; they're essentially ornamental) could be quite limited by EV charging issues vs the convenience of filling up a tank of gas.

AlchemistCamp 2y ago
> "This part is a real shame because the US doesn't have vehicles like the Toyota Hilux" Yes! That was the first and only truck (or any car) I've ever owned! It was just called the "Toyota Pickup" in the US but it's the same model that was named "Hilux" in many other countries. I used it to drive ladder racks and paint around Denver while I was in the house painting business to pay my way through college. It had almost 200k miles on it when I gave it to my dad after I graduated and decided to move abroad. To the best of my knowledge, he's still driving it and when I last asked him about it several years ago, it had well over half a million miles on it. At least for autos made in the 90s, Toyota's quality was unmatched. My dad is a former plane mechanic and has undoubtedly extended its life, but I had no idea what I was doing and that pickup seemed virtually impervious to normal wear and tear. It's a shame it was discontinued in the US.

riffraff 2y ago

> is already ahead of 9% of all 2024 vehicles in quality but 90% of those 2024 vehicles are much cheaper, so you would expect a lower quality. Also remember the cybertruck was presented five years ago.

esalman 2y ago

The only people I know who were genuinely impressed by cybertruck are 1. My father in law who was visiting USA and does not know how to drive, and 2. My 3yo son.

BeefWellington 2y ago

I'll never buy one but I suspect a lot of the "AHA GOTCHA" attitude coming from more traditional car-oriented media is coming from a place of not liking an upstart. There's just a lot of easy things to point at with the Cybertruck because of what was promised vs what was delivered. This happens with model cars from other manufacturers too though what changes there is often more looks than promised functionality.

jmb99 2y ago
There’s a pretty big difference between traditional auto markers’ “concept cars” and Tesla in 2019 showing off what was supposed to be very close to the final production car. It was also supposed to start at $40k, be bulletproof, have shatterproof glass (at least that one was discredited the minute it was announced), have a boat mode, have over 500mile range, and have a bed ramp. And it was supposed to have a “exoskeleton” design that, spoiler alert, isn’t possible. That was not “here’s this neat concept,” that was “this is the car we’re going to sell you.” Everyone (or at least, everyone in my bubble) knew that every single thing was BS (except maybe the ramp), but still nearly two million people with enough money for a pre-order gobbled it up.

rsynnott 2y ago

> Let's rewrite the headline. "A radical new EV design from Tesla, the Cybertruck, is already ahead of 9% of all 2024 vehicles in quality as it just ramps up production". Today in damning with comically faint praise...