7 ms·

Musk has said several times Lidar is great. It's just a stupid idea for automotive use and he's not wrong. There's nothing similar in nature for a reason.

itishappy 2y ago
Time of flight ranging is used in nature by bats and whales/dolphins.
- fragmede 2y ago
  and humans! https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/how-to-echolocate https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/how-to-echolocate
  - password4321 2y ago
    2024 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42160071 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42160071 2018 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18208334 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18208334
  - maxbond 2y ago
    My back of the napkin estimate is that a human using time of flight ranging would be unable to distinguish between an object directly in front of their face and 8.6 meters away[1]. I think human echolocation uses a different mechanism (presumably relating to amplitude)? Skimming the Wikipedia article[2], it seems like animals do use time of flight, but also Doppler shifting. (As a side note, some animals have apparently evolved active countermeasures to echolocation!? It seems obvious in retrospect but incredibly cool.) There's interesting research into the mechanisms of human echolocation [3], but it was over my head. My impression was that the jury is out as far as the precise mechanisms involved but that there's a lot of evidence to be considered, I'm sure someone with a better background would get more out of it than I did. (I'm just curious about the mechanism, I agree that LIDAR has natural analogs.) [1] Speed of sound * 25ms, 25ms being the rule of thumb I've memorized for the minimum interval for two sounds to register as distinct from each other. This is just folk wisdom I've picked up hacking on audio, so perhaps I'm mistaken. [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_echolocation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_echolocation [3] https://durham-repository.worktribe.com/preview/1375913/19632.pdf https://durham-repository.worktribe.com/preview/1375913/1963...
- jaimex2 2y ago
  Both primarily use their eyes. Look it up.
igorstellar 2y ago
Rotorwings are also not found in the nature yet they give us ability to navigate in a short distance 3D space better than fixed wing.
bobsomers 2y ago
Airplanes don't flap their wings and boats don't wag their tails. Assuming that all technology should imitate nature is a naive engineering principle. The solution should solve the problem within the given constraints.
- jaimex2 2y ago
  Nature came up with something much better in both those cases. Portable, energy efficient, light, doesn't need refined oil, tightly steers... Boats and aeroplanes are terrible in comparison. They only work due to a huge network of global effort.
  - 542354234235 2y ago
    >They only work due to a huge network of global effort. And horses don’t need roads like cars do and cars only work thanks to a huge network of global effort. What point are you trying to make? That we abandon planes until we can develop flight as efficient as nature? Abandoning LIDAR until we can develop visual light perception and processing equal to the human eye and brain?
  - vel0city 2y ago
    I don't see many birds around able to carry an extra 280,000lbs for 2,300 miles without having a meal.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
bluGill 2y ago
Nature makes for bad drivers. for some age groups cars are the largest causeof death. I self driving can do better.
edm0nd 2y ago
Bats kinda have Lidar.
- jaimex2 2y ago
  Echo location but they still mostly use their eyes. Same as dolphins
- willy_k 2y ago
  Wouldn’t it be sonar?
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

itishappy 2y ago

Time of flight ranging is used in nature by bats and whales/dolphins.

fragmede 2y ago
and humans! https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/how-to-echolocate https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/how-to-echolocate
- password4321 2y ago
  2024 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42160071 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42160071 2018 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18208334 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18208334
- maxbond 2y ago
  My back of the napkin estimate is that a human using time of flight ranging would be unable to distinguish between an object directly in front of their face and 8.6 meters away[1]. I think human echolocation uses a different mechanism (presumably relating to amplitude)? Skimming the Wikipedia article[2], it seems like animals do use time of flight, but also Doppler shifting. (As a side note, some animals have apparently evolved active countermeasures to echolocation!? It seems obvious in retrospect but incredibly cool.) There's interesting research into the mechanisms of human echolocation [3], but it was over my head. My impression was that the jury is out as far as the precise mechanisms involved but that there's a lot of evidence to be considered, I'm sure someone with a better background would get more out of it than I did. (I'm just curious about the mechanism, I agree that LIDAR has natural analogs.) [1] Speed of sound * 25ms, 25ms being the rule of thumb I've memorized for the minimum interval for two sounds to register as distinct from each other. This is just folk wisdom I've picked up hacking on audio, so perhaps I'm mistaken. [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_echolocation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_echolocation [3] https://durham-repository.worktribe.com/preview/1375913/19632.pdf https://durham-repository.worktribe.com/preview/1375913/1963...
jaimex2 2y ago
Both primarily use their eyes. Look it up.

igorstellar 2y ago

Rotorwings are also not found in the nature yet they give us ability to navigate in a short distance 3D space better than fixed wing.

bobsomers 2y ago

Airplanes don't flap their wings and boats don't wag their tails. Assuming that all technology should imitate nature is a naive engineering principle. The solution should solve the problem within the given constraints.

jaimex2 2y ago
Nature came up with something much better in both those cases. Portable, energy efficient, light, doesn't need refined oil, tightly steers... Boats and aeroplanes are terrible in comparison. They only work due to a huge network of global effort.
- 542354234235 2y ago
  >They only work due to a huge network of global effort. And horses don’t need roads like cars do and cars only work thanks to a huge network of global effort. What point are you trying to make? That we abandon planes until we can develop flight as efficient as nature? Abandoning LIDAR until we can develop visual light perception and processing equal to the human eye and brain?
- vel0city 2y ago
  I don't see many birds around able to carry an extra 280,000lbs for 2,300 miles without having a meal.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

bluGill 2y ago

Nature makes for bad drivers. for some age groups cars are the largest causeof death. I self driving can do better.

edm0nd 2y ago

Bats kinda have Lidar.

jaimex2 2y ago
Echo location but they still mostly use their eyes. Same as dolphins
willy_k 2y ago
Wouldn’t it be sonar?

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]