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I would love for someone to fight out these bullshit trademark claims. Are you seriously going to win against a crate author for using your business name after

I would love for someone to fight out these bullshit trademark claims. Are you seriously going to win against a crate author for using your business name after letting them do it for 10 years and even featuring and recommending them on your own website? (Referencing https://github.com/redis-rs/redis-rs/issues/1419 https://github.com/redis-rs/redis-rs/issues/1419 )

0cf8612b2e1e 2y ago
Who is going to pay to defend? The rust author is making it clear they want no part of this legal mess. Which is going to be true for nearly any open source contributor. The only people with legal representation are going to be the VCs looking for value extraction.
- echoangle 2y ago
  Yes, that’s the problem. I understand the perspective of the maintainers but it leads to a situation where the large corporation can do illegal stuff and bully people around because it’s too much effort to fight back.
  - solardev 2y ago
    That's basically our entire society...
  - dartos 2y ago
    Hey welcome to the legal system!
- rty32 2y ago
  FSF?
znpy 2y ago
This looks a lot like the wordpress issue… i think the oss wars of the 2020s will be fought around trademarks? One more reason to move to valkey i guess.
tayo42 2y ago
That issue looks reasonable, there isnt anything about trademarks there, why bring it up? It looks to be about providing support to paying users of Redis in a library that doesn't have much goals. And they offered to pay for it to do it.
- echoangle 2y ago
  Do ctrl+f for „trademark“, there are currently 12 occurrences. Here’s what the Redis representative wrote: > These are not my words nor the message I want to convey. In a private call, I said that it feels strange to use the brand name for a library that keeps supporting all the forks indefinitely and does not grant compatibility for the product itself. I also said that it does not make a lot of sense to pretend to rename a crate and replace it with the same software or an alternative library, thus creating confusion and frustration. However, companies do consider protecting their trademarks where their reputation is challenged. This does not need any explanation. In my private call with Armin, I highlighted that. Of course, there is no plan to take action regarding the trademark, but to find a reasoned and agreed-upon way forward to avoid introducing another Redis Rust client library where changes, improvements, and innovation can be introduced. So basically the point is to make thinly veiled threats of copyright enforcement to „agree to a solution“. The Mafia also agrees with you on a payment plan after highlighting that a fire would be a shame in your establishment.
  - tayo42 2y ago
    He published the emails where it says they want to own the library so they can set the road map for it, they're offering to pay for it.That quote even says they're not looking to take action over the trademark. Your response is alittle over emotional.
    - echoangle 2y ago
      I just quoted the part where the Redis representative describes a private call. How does the content of the emails negate that? > That quote even says they're not looking to take action over the trademark. Yeah, he’s basically saying „also, we think you’re infringing but we won’t have to enforce that, right? I’m sure we can come to an agreement, wink wink“. Maybe I’m reading this completely wrong but this reminder is basically a threat to sue you to death if you don’t comply.
ojosilva 2y ago
I have to thank Redis Inc. for bringing on this shitshow. I had no idea about Valkey and now I do. Corporate hats should consider the loss of general trust and negative marketing their actions produce. And yeah, I wish FSF or some other, strong and well-funded org would be more "broken glass" and take issue with even the tiniest of legal fights over OSS.
- wslh 2y ago
  Barbra Streisands's Effect?
nrvn 2y ago
Let them fail. Does anyone today remember SCO chasing virtually everyone on Earth after unix licensing violation and copyright infringement claims? There is no shortage in KV stores with similar properties so if redisinc. wants to continue their path without delivering actual value to the customers especially to enterprise customers willing to spend money they know exactly where they will land in several years from now.
CM30 2y ago
I've sometimes wondered if it would be possible to have a voluntary organisation funded by developers and other tech folks whose sole purpose is to fight legal battles against companies and other organisations looking to bully contributors on dodgy legal grounds. I'm sure a lot of these legal threats would go away very quickly if the possibility of a large scale legal battle was on the horizon every single time. Or at least, they'd be a lot more willing to settle quickly if their opponent was fairly evenly matched resources wise.
- yencabulator 2y ago
  https://sfconservancy.org/ https://sfconservancy.org/ ?

0cf8612b2e1e 2y ago

Who is going to pay to defend? The rust author is making it clear they want no part of this legal mess. Which is going to be true for nearly any open source contributor. The only people with legal representation are going to be the VCs looking for value extraction.

echoangle 2y ago
Yes, that’s the problem. I understand the perspective of the maintainers but it leads to a situation where the large corporation can do illegal stuff and bully people around because it’s too much effort to fight back.
- solardev 2y ago
  That's basically our entire society...
- dartos 2y ago
  Hey welcome to the legal system!
rty32 2y ago
FSF?

znpy 2y ago

This looks a lot like the wordpress issue… i think the oss wars of the 2020s will be fought around trademarks? One more reason to move to valkey i guess.

tayo42 2y ago

That issue looks reasonable, there isnt anything about trademarks there, why bring it up? It looks to be about providing support to paying users of Redis in a library that doesn't have much goals. And they offered to pay for it to do it.

echoangle 2y ago
Do ctrl+f for „trademark“, there are currently 12 occurrences. Here’s what the Redis representative wrote: > These are not my words nor the message I want to convey. In a private call, I said that it feels strange to use the brand name for a library that keeps supporting all the forks indefinitely and does not grant compatibility for the product itself. I also said that it does not make a lot of sense to pretend to rename a crate and replace it with the same software or an alternative library, thus creating confusion and frustration. However, companies do consider protecting their trademarks where their reputation is challenged. This does not need any explanation. In my private call with Armin, I highlighted that. Of course, there is no plan to take action regarding the trademark, but to find a reasoned and agreed-upon way forward to avoid introducing another Redis Rust client library where changes, improvements, and innovation can be introduced. So basically the point is to make thinly veiled threats of copyright enforcement to „agree to a solution“. The Mafia also agrees with you on a payment plan after highlighting that a fire would be a shame in your establishment.
- tayo42 2y ago
  He published the emails where it says they want to own the library so they can set the road map for it, they're offering to pay for it.That quote even says they're not looking to take action over the trademark. Your response is alittle over emotional.
  - echoangle 2y ago
    I just quoted the part where the Redis representative describes a private call. How does the content of the emails negate that? > That quote even says they're not looking to take action over the trademark. Yeah, he’s basically saying „also, we think you’re infringing but we won’t have to enforce that, right? I’m sure we can come to an agreement, wink wink“. Maybe I’m reading this completely wrong but this reminder is basically a threat to sue you to death if you don’t comply.

ojosilva 2y ago

I have to thank Redis Inc. for bringing on this shitshow. I had no idea about Valkey and now I do. Corporate hats should consider the loss of general trust and negative marketing their actions produce. And yeah, I wish FSF or some other, strong and well-funded org would be more "broken glass" and take issue with even the tiniest of legal fights over OSS.

wslh 2y ago
Barbra Streisands's Effect?

nrvn 2y ago

Let them fail. Does anyone today remember SCO chasing virtually everyone on Earth after unix licensing violation and copyright infringement claims? There is no shortage in KV stores with similar properties so if redisinc. wants to continue their path without delivering actual value to the customers especially to enterprise customers willing to spend money they know exactly where they will land in several years from now.

CM30 2y ago

I've sometimes wondered if it would be possible to have a voluntary organisation funded by developers and other tech folks whose sole purpose is to fight legal battles against companies and other organisations looking to bully contributors on dodgy legal grounds. I'm sure a lot of these legal threats would go away very quickly if the possibility of a large scale legal battle was on the horizon every single time. Or at least, they'd be a lot more willing to settle quickly if their opponent was fairly evenly matched resources wise.

yencabulator 2y ago
https://sfconservancy.org/ https://sfconservancy.org/ ?