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He didn't according to his biographer, and it definitely wasn't staged. The bafflement of his hosts is well recorded, as were his questions and his expressions

He didn't according to his biographer, and it definitely wasn't staged. The bafflement of his hosts is well recorded, as were his questions and his expressions as he explored the shop, see the photo on this page: https://www.cato.org/blog/happy-yeltsin-supermarket-day https://www.cato.org/blog/happy-yeltsin-supermarket-day Soviet supermarkets were drastically more impoverished at that time. No comparison. Censorship is a problem because it affects everyone, especially the higher ups. That's why he'd got into the habit of demanding surprise inspections. As a factory manager he'd accepted that everyone was always hiding the truth from him. In systems like that there isn't any point in the hierarchy where you your boss takes you to one side and says Boris, listen, there's a vault with all our secrets and truths, let me show you. It never happens. The people at the top have to believe in the system the most of all.

bee_rider 2y ago
> The bafflement of his hosts is well recorded, as were his questions and his expressions as he explored the shop, This isn’t really evidence that it wasn’t staged by him though. That is, he doesn’t need to tell the host that he’s going to react strongly. He was a political operator, I’m sure he’d be happy to dupe some supermarket owner. > Soviet supermarkets were drastically more impoverished at that time. No comparison. > Censorship is a problem because it affects everyone, especially the higher ups. That's why he'd got into the habit of demanding surprise inspections. As a factory manager he'd accepted that everyone was always hiding the truth from him. In systems like that there isn't any point in the hierarchy where you your boss takes you to one side and says Boris, listen, there's a vault with all our secrets and truths, let me show you. It never happens. The people at the top have to believe in the system the most of all. Sure, but this wasn’t secret information. America was broadcasting information about our wealth around the world. I guess we probably have people on this site who were in the Soviet Union during the 80’s. Maybe they can recall what they thought was going on over here.
- mike_hearn 2y ago
  > Sure, but this wasn’t secret information Of course it was! All information about the true state of the west was censored and controlled. Today North Korea does the same thing for the same reason. "Censorship in the Soviet Union was pervasive and strictly enforced": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_the_Soviet_Union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_the_Soviet_Union "Due to the appearance of foreign radio stations broadcasting in Russian territory and their immunity from censorship, as well as the appearance of a large number of shortwave receivers, massive jamming of these stations was applied in the USSR using high-power radio-electronic equipment. It continued for almost 60 years until the end of the Cold War. The Soviet radio censorship network was the most extensive in the world."
  - sangnoir 2y ago
    > Censorship in the Soviet Union was pervasive and strictly enforced Do you suppose Yeltsin didn't have access to the uncensored information before his visit? Or that Soviet spies who sent in hyper-accurate maps of US city infrastructure wouldn't be asked to report on the booming economic success of American retail?
    - ceejayoz 2y ago
      Russian intelligence hiding bad news entirely from Russian leadership is a long standing tradition. It's how we get three-day special operations in Ukraine. Case in point: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/ukraine-war-russia-general-fired-false-progress-reports-rcna181589 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/ukraine-war-russia-genera...
      - bee_rider 2y ago
        I think that is a different issue. There’s an incentive to not report problems upwards if there’s a tradition of shooting the messenger.
        mike_hearn 2y ago
        Yeltsin was purged from the party because he gave a "secret speech" calling for more aggressive economic reforms, and then placed under so much pressure he tried to commit suicide. The tradition of shooting messengers was alive and well in the USSR.
- bombcar 2y ago
  Even if the information about our wealth was available; it was likely discounted and ignored; even North Korea can make charade supermarkets as necessary. There's a difference between hearing something and seeing it everywhere.
  - Symbiote 2y ago
    North Koreans watch smuggled South Korean videos. These show cars, shops and so on, and the northerners assume the videos are showing the best of South Korea, not normal life.

bee_rider 2y ago

> The bafflement of his hosts is well recorded, as were his questions and his expressions as he explored the shop, This isn’t really evidence that it wasn’t staged by him though. That is, he doesn’t need to tell the host that he’s going to react strongly. He was a political operator, I’m sure he’d be happy to dupe some supermarket owner. > Soviet supermarkets were drastically more impoverished at that time. No comparison. > Censorship is a problem because it affects everyone, especially the higher ups. That's why he'd got into the habit of demanding surprise inspections. As a factory manager he'd accepted that everyone was always hiding the truth from him. In systems like that there isn't any point in the hierarchy where you your boss takes you to one side and says Boris, listen, there's a vault with all our secrets and truths, let me show you. It never happens. The people at the top have to believe in the system the most of all. Sure, but this wasn’t secret information. America was broadcasting information about our wealth around the world. I guess we probably have people on this site who were in the Soviet Union during the 80’s. Maybe they can recall what they thought was going on over here.

mike_hearn 2y ago
> Sure, but this wasn’t secret information Of course it was! All information about the true state of the west was censored and controlled. Today North Korea does the same thing for the same reason. "Censorship in the Soviet Union was pervasive and strictly enforced": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_the_Soviet_Union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_the_Soviet_Union "Due to the appearance of foreign radio stations broadcasting in Russian territory and their immunity from censorship, as well as the appearance of a large number of shortwave receivers, massive jamming of these stations was applied in the USSR using high-power radio-electronic equipment. It continued for almost 60 years until the end of the Cold War. The Soviet radio censorship network was the most extensive in the world."
- sangnoir 2y ago
  > Censorship in the Soviet Union was pervasive and strictly enforced Do you suppose Yeltsin didn't have access to the uncensored information before his visit? Or that Soviet spies who sent in hyper-accurate maps of US city infrastructure wouldn't be asked to report on the booming economic success of American retail?
  - ceejayoz 2y ago
    Russian intelligence hiding bad news entirely from Russian leadership is a long standing tradition. It's how we get three-day special operations in Ukraine. Case in point: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/ukraine-war-russia-general-fired-false-progress-reports-rcna181589 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/ukraine-war-russia-genera...
    - bee_rider 2y ago
      I think that is a different issue. There’s an incentive to not report problems upwards if there’s a tradition of shooting the messenger.
      - mike_hearn 2y ago
        Yeltsin was purged from the party because he gave a "secret speech" calling for more aggressive economic reforms, and then placed under so much pressure he tried to commit suicide. The tradition of shooting messengers was alive and well in the USSR.
bombcar 2y ago
Even if the information about our wealth was available; it was likely discounted and ignored; even North Korea can make charade supermarkets as necessary. There's a difference between hearing something and seeing it everywhere.
- Symbiote 2y ago
  North Koreans watch smuggled South Korean videos. These show cars, shops and so on, and the northerners assume the videos are showing the best of South Korea, not normal life.