4 ms·

Wouldn’t put it past him? Can you offer even a single example?

by hcurtiss 2y ago

dyauspitr 2y ago
2022, cut out crimea.
- inemesitaffia 2y ago
  Not true and still off today. I've not seen anyone claim they used to be able to use equipment in Crimea at some point in the past and now it doesn't work.
- throwaway290 2y ago
  I believe by the time Starlink arrived in Ukraine Crimea was already occupied and post "referendum" and providing service there would be like providing service to Russia, no?
  - aguaviva 2y ago
    No, because the "referendum" was meaningless and had no effect on the peninsula's sovereignty. Which since 1991 has been and remains Ukrainian.
    - throwaway290 2y ago
      my question was rhetorical. it is nonsense to say it was sovereign and at the same time belongs to ukraine since 1991 what it is, is an occupied territory of ukraine fully controlled by russia with russian military on it that's whom starlink service in Crimea would benefit
      - aguaviva 2y ago
        I didn't say "it was sovereign" (all by itself). I referred to "its sovereignty", in terms of who it belonged to (both in 1991 and now). The two contexts are entirely different. what it is, is an occupied territory of ukraine fully controlled by russia with russian military on it And yet -- still entirely under Ukrainian sovereignty. It seems you're a bit unclear as to what the term means. It doesn't mean "military control". Point mean: just because the Russian currently military sits on the Crimea, doesn't mean it's "part of Russia". And no, it's not just a symbolic difference. It's a hugely, hugely important one. my question was rhetorical. Indeed, it looks like you're shooting into the wind here. I'll have to leave to explore these topics on your own.
        throwaway290 2y ago
        Whether to provide Crimea with Starlink or not depends on who sits there. Similar reason why all Crimeans got under sanctions immediately after annexation. Not just Starlink but every other Western company respecting sanctions stopped doing business with Crimea. Same with Donetsk and Luhansk. No one cares if it's "legally" Ukraine. People care about the "effectively". Legally always depends on who you ask. Some will tell you that Taiwan is part of PRC for example. Maybe at least half of the world will. However Taiwan is not under sanctions because effectively it isn't under PRC. > Indeed, it looks like you're shooting into the wind here I am just trying to reduce you some confusion by explaining some basics. Starlink was not yet in Ukraine when Crimea was annexed and the world mostly sat and just watched it happen. Therefore the musk-man could not "cut out crimea". There's nothing to argue about. Just don't spread misinfo please, there's enough of it.
        aguaviva 2y ago
        No one cares if it's "legally" Ukraine. That's objectively just not true at all. Legally always depends on who you ask. Also not true at all. Of course, you can always find people who say something wildly at odds with the overwhelming international consensus, and in any case completely lacking in any intrinsic substance. But that doesn't mean what they're saying is even potentially valid, and that the matter "depends" on what they say. See also: "Nothing is true" - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42244709 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42244709 Therefore the musk-man could not "cut out crimea". I never said anything about Musk or Starlink. If you think I did, then we're definitely talking past each other.
        throwaway290 2y ago
        I replied to a guy who said Musk turned off Starlink in Crimea. Which is false. If we are not talking about that then I don't know what we're talking about. > That's objectively just not true at all. I'll clarify. For the purposes of doing business there no one cares if it's legally Ukraine. > Of course, you can always find people who say something wildly at odds with the overwhelming international consensus Yes I can find a Crimea full of them and probably half the world at large who will say it is legally Russia now. I properly talked to one Crimean only in my life and he voted for Russia in referendum. he said most people did because higher salary etc. When war began he left the country tho. Maybe he realized his mistake but probably just didn't want to get killed. International consensus is fluid and ephemeral (maybe even precisely because people like putler)
sd8f9iu 2y ago
There are countless examples of Musk selectively banning people on Twitter based on political belief, such as this one [1]. And of course, he banned the @elonjet account, even after specifically saying he would not [2]. More specifically to StarLink, he banned Ukrainian forces from using them around Crimea [3]. [1] https://variety.com/2022/digital/news/twitter-suspends-journalists-keith-olbermann-aaron-rupar-elon-musk-1235463043/ https://variety.com/2022/digital/news/twitter-suspends-journ... [2] https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1589414958508691456 https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1589414958508691456 [3] https://archive.is/jfdy4 https://archive.is/jfdy4
- omeid2 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - sd8f9iu 2y ago
    I don't want private businessmen making decisions like that.
    - ahmetrcagil 2y ago
      Yes, it is unelected corrupt officials' job after all.
    - inemesitaffia 2y ago
      He agrees with you. Believe it or not. You're also arguing SpaceX should have waited for a Pentagon contract to deliver to Ukraine

Wouldn’t put it past him? Can you offer even a single example?

dyauspitr 2y ago

2022, cut out crimea.

inemesitaffia 2y ago
Not true and still off today. I've not seen anyone claim they used to be able to use equipment in Crimea at some point in the past and now it doesn't work.
throwaway290 2y ago
I believe by the time Starlink arrived in Ukraine Crimea was already occupied and post "referendum" and providing service there would be like providing service to Russia, no?
- aguaviva 2y ago
  No, because the "referendum" was meaningless and had no effect on the peninsula's sovereignty. Which since 1991 has been and remains Ukrainian.
  - throwaway290 2y ago
    my question was rhetorical. it is nonsense to say it was sovereign and at the same time belongs to ukraine since 1991 what it is, is an occupied territory of ukraine fully controlled by russia with russian military on it that's whom starlink service in Crimea would benefit
    - aguaviva 2y ago
      I didn't say "it was sovereign" (all by itself). I referred to "its sovereignty", in terms of who it belonged to (both in 1991 and now). The two contexts are entirely different. what it is, is an occupied territory of ukraine fully controlled by russia with russian military on it And yet -- still entirely under Ukrainian sovereignty. It seems you're a bit unclear as to what the term means. It doesn't mean "military control". Point mean: just because the Russian currently military sits on the Crimea, doesn't mean it's "part of Russia". And no, it's not just a symbolic difference. It's a hugely, hugely important one. my question was rhetorical. Indeed, it looks like you're shooting into the wind here. I'll have to leave to explore these topics on your own.
      - throwaway290 2y ago
        Whether to provide Crimea with Starlink or not depends on who sits there. Similar reason why all Crimeans got under sanctions immediately after annexation. Not just Starlink but every other Western company respecting sanctions stopped doing business with Crimea. Same with Donetsk and Luhansk. No one cares if it's "legally" Ukraine. People care about the "effectively". Legally always depends on who you ask. Some will tell you that Taiwan is part of PRC for example. Maybe at least half of the world will. However Taiwan is not under sanctions because effectively it isn't under PRC. > Indeed, it looks like you're shooting into the wind here I am just trying to reduce you some confusion by explaining some basics. Starlink was not yet in Ukraine when Crimea was annexed and the world mostly sat and just watched it happen. Therefore the musk-man could not "cut out crimea". There's nothing to argue about. Just don't spread misinfo please, there's enough of it.
        aguaviva 2y ago
        No one cares if it's "legally" Ukraine. That's objectively just not true at all. Legally always depends on who you ask. Also not true at all. Of course, you can always find people who say something wildly at odds with the overwhelming international consensus, and in any case completely lacking in any intrinsic substance. But that doesn't mean what they're saying is even potentially valid, and that the matter "depends" on what they say. See also: "Nothing is true" - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42244709 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42244709 Therefore the musk-man could not "cut out crimea". I never said anything about Musk or Starlink. If you think I did, then we're definitely talking past each other.
        throwaway290 2y ago
        I replied to a guy who said Musk turned off Starlink in Crimea. Which is false. If we are not talking about that then I don't know what we're talking about. > That's objectively just not true at all. I'll clarify. For the purposes of doing business there no one cares if it's legally Ukraine. > Of course, you can always find people who say something wildly at odds with the overwhelming international consensus Yes I can find a Crimea full of them and probably half the world at large who will say it is legally Russia now. I properly talked to one Crimean only in my life and he voted for Russia in referendum. he said most people did because higher salary etc. When war began he left the country tho. Maybe he realized his mistake but probably just didn't want to get killed. International consensus is fluid and ephemeral (maybe even precisely because people like putler)

sd8f9iu 2y ago

There are countless examples of Musk selectively banning people on Twitter based on political belief, such as this one [1]. And of course, he banned the @elonjet account, even after specifically saying he would not [2]. More specifically to StarLink, he banned Ukrainian forces from using them around Crimea [3]. [1] https://variety.com/2022/digital/news/twitter-suspends-journalists-keith-olbermann-aaron-rupar-elon-musk-1235463043/ https://variety.com/2022/digital/news/twitter-suspends-journ... [2] https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1589414958508691456 https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1589414958508691456 [3] https://archive.is/jfdy4 https://archive.is/jfdy4

omeid2 2y ago
[flagged]
- sd8f9iu 2y ago
  I don't want private businessmen making decisions like that.
  - ahmetrcagil 2y ago
    Yes, it is unelected corrupt officials' job after all.
  - inemesitaffia 2y ago
    He agrees with you. Believe it or not. You're also arguing SpaceX should have waited for a Pentagon contract to deliver to Ukraine