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> Nobody could have realised that camera traps put in the Indian forest to monitor mammals actually have a profoundly negative impact on the mental health of lo

> Nobody could have realised that camera traps put in the Indian forest to monitor mammals actually have a profoundly negative impact on the mental health of local women who use these spaces. Most women could have predicted that spycams in a park, run by a government in a country with known issues around women’s rights, would lead to issues. Even governments with incredibly strict rules and indelible audit trails struggle with men in government using their access to data to stalk women. India is not a country known for these things.

ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago
Here in NY, we had a [very short-term] governor, who used to be the Attorney General, get hoist by his own petard. While AG, he put in place, a monitoring regimen, that caught him, as Guv, using state funds to buy hookers and whatnot. For all I know, he might have gotten away with it, if he hadn’t been using state funds. It kinda ripped the lid off a bunch of fairly misogynistic attitudes, though. He didn’t last long, after that.
- yieldcrv 2y ago
  Consuming sex work isn’t misogynistic, by definition as it doesnt involve contempt or hate of women, sex workers have a voice too and don’t want to be marginalized by that assumption or dilution of that word Just a view I see lacking and underrepresented in tech spaces But if there are other things you’re referring to with that governor then definitely mention those, separately
  - automatic6131 2y ago
    >Consuming sex work isn’t misogynistic Something very much up for debate amongst leading scholars. I - personally - think buying sex is bad, and degrading to both parties.
    - ChoHag 2y ago
      [dead]
    - Cumpiler69 2y ago
      >Something very much up for debate amongst leading scholars Who are those "leading scholars" and what gives them authority to be the judge what consenting adults do with their body for a living or for entertainment?
      - mensetmanusman 2y ago
        What gives anyone authority either way to say whether something is degrading? It comes down to consensus in practice.
        Cumpiler69 2y ago
        Exactly. Random people should stop trying to play "morality police" on consenting adults engaging in legal activities in their own private spaces in their private time. It's none of your concern what other people do.
        vjk800 2y ago
        By stating that people's private business shouldn't concern others, you are also imposing a moral system on others. Throughout most of the history, and to many people even now, morality extends beyond what's observable to outsiders. See e.g. what most of the religions have to say on issues such as homosexuality or eating certain foods. I'm not saying I have the right answer to all of this either, I'm just pointing out that your "morally neutral" stance isn't as neutral as you'd like to think.
        Cumpiler69 2y ago
        >By stating that people's private business shouldn't concern others, you are also imposing a moral system on others Only in mental gymnastics. Staying out of other people's private lives is not a question of my own morality but also the law in most western democracies. I am free to do whatever I want as long as my freedom doesn't negatively affect anyone else. If you're not affected by what I'm doing in private, why are you trying to involve yourself in it and act as a judge?
  - ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago
    I don’t think it had that much to do with the hookers. I think a bunch of other behavior came to light, during the ensuing brouhaha.
  - BadHumans 2y ago
    Buying sex doesn't make you a misogynist but misogynist can and often do buy sex.
  - binary132 2y ago
    actually I see this opinion every time I read comments on any article even remotely touching on the subject in a tech forum.
    - yieldcrv 2y ago
      great, representation matters
- Spooky23 2y ago
  Nah. A compliance officer at his bank filed a SAR because he was structuring wire transfers to bypass his reporting requirement. He wasn’t using state funds. The Feds started poking around, and voilà. The Southern District of NY US Attorney was a big game hunter for politicians, so his goose was cooked. Ironically, the lieutenant governor who replaced him came out swinging, disclosing that he did inhale, regularly had sex outside of his marriage, did cocaine and various other things. Lol.
  - Semaphor 2y ago
    > Ironically, the lieutenant governor who replaced him came out swinging, disclosing that he did inhale, regularly had sex outside of his marriage, did cocaine and various other things. Lol. Hah, how did he do?
    - fsckboy 2y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eliot_Spitzer_prostitution_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eliot_Spitzer_prostitution_sca... succeeded as governor by David Paterson, a blind man... nothing says a blind governor can't embezzle funds to spend on prostitutes, but perhaps it's less common? wikip: Paterson launched a campaign for a full term as governor in the 2010 New York gubernatorial election, but he announced on February 26, 2010, that he would bow out of the race. During the final year of his administration, Paterson faced allegations of soliciting improper gifts and making false statements; he was eventually fined in excess of $62,000 for accepting free New York Yankees tickets. He was not charged with perjury. He was succeeded as governor by https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Cuomo_sexual_harassment_allegations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Cuomo_sexual_harassment...
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
johnisgood 2y ago
Why is it limited to women in general? It affects everyone. And I wonder in what cases it is an issue for those, because we have cameras everywhere and people are fine with it. > Camera traps and drones deployed by government authorities to monitor a forest in India are infringing on the privacy and rights of local women. Why women specifically? Would it not affect me?! > The women, who previously found sanctuary in the forest away from their male-dominated villages, told Simlai they feel watched and inhibited by camera traps, so talk and sing much more quietly. This does not explain it. Men and women both do this. My Indian friend just went to visit a "retreat place" or whatever it is called for a week, there are both men an women. I would not want to be recorded in the forest either, nor anywhere else, but it is a "fact of life" I cannot do against. :|
- sabbaticaldev 2y ago
  > Why is it limited to women in general? It affects everyone John, you should ask this to men, why do men get obsessed over women and stalk them much more often? > Why women specifically? Would it not affect me?! do you have a history of being stalked by women? I don’t believe
  - johnisgood 2y ago
    I actually do have a history of being stalked by women, e.g. my ex, a female, twice my age and "only" another female. So... in my entire life I have been stalked by women only, 2 women in total (as far I can recall). The whole thing is not limited to stalking anyways.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- dhfbshfbu4u3 2y ago
  Sure, it effects everyone’s privacy but women are 99.99% more likely to be raped than men so perhaps they have a bit more to worry about.
  - pvaldes 2y ago
raxxorraxor 2y ago
These are just accepted casualties of those pushing for video surveillance. We also know about the chilling effects of surveillance. Nobody seems to care.
- ninalanyon 2y ago
  > We also know about the chilling effects of surveillance. But do we really? > Nobody seems to care. Might it not also be the case that eventually people will simply assume that they are always under surveillance and that therefore they may as well do whatever they wish wherever they wish with the result that the behaviour that the surveillance sought to suppress actually becomes not merely more prevalent but also more public. See Clarke and Baxter's Light of Other Days for a fictional exploration of the subject.

ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago

Here in NY, we had a [very short-term] governor, who used to be the Attorney General, get hoist by his own petard. While AG, he put in place, a monitoring regimen, that caught him, as Guv, using state funds to buy hookers and whatnot. For all I know, he might have gotten away with it, if he hadn’t been using state funds. It kinda ripped the lid off a bunch of fairly misogynistic attitudes, though. He didn’t last long, after that.

yieldcrv 2y ago
Consuming sex work isn’t misogynistic, by definition as it doesnt involve contempt or hate of women, sex workers have a voice too and don’t want to be marginalized by that assumption or dilution of that word Just a view I see lacking and underrepresented in tech spaces But if there are other things you’re referring to with that governor then definitely mention those, separately
- automatic6131 2y ago
  >Consuming sex work isn’t misogynistic Something very much up for debate amongst leading scholars. I - personally - think buying sex is bad, and degrading to both parties.
  - ChoHag 2y ago
    [dead]
  - Cumpiler69 2y ago
    >Something very much up for debate amongst leading scholars Who are those "leading scholars" and what gives them authority to be the judge what consenting adults do with their body for a living or for entertainment?
    - mensetmanusman 2y ago
      What gives anyone authority either way to say whether something is degrading? It comes down to consensus in practice.
      - Cumpiler69 2y ago
        Exactly. Random people should stop trying to play "morality police" on consenting adults engaging in legal activities in their own private spaces in their private time. It's none of your concern what other people do.
        vjk800 2y ago
        By stating that people's private business shouldn't concern others, you are also imposing a moral system on others. Throughout most of the history, and to many people even now, morality extends beyond what's observable to outsiders. See e.g. what most of the religions have to say on issues such as homosexuality or eating certain foods. I'm not saying I have the right answer to all of this either, I'm just pointing out that your "morally neutral" stance isn't as neutral as you'd like to think.
        Cumpiler69 2y ago
        >By stating that people's private business shouldn't concern others, you are also imposing a moral system on others Only in mental gymnastics. Staying out of other people's private lives is not a question of my own morality but also the law in most western democracies. I am free to do whatever I want as long as my freedom doesn't negatively affect anyone else. If you're not affected by what I'm doing in private, why are you trying to involve yourself in it and act as a judge?
- ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago
  I don’t think it had that much to do with the hookers. I think a bunch of other behavior came to light, during the ensuing brouhaha.
- BadHumans 2y ago
  Buying sex doesn't make you a misogynist but misogynist can and often do buy sex.
- binary132 2y ago
  actually I see this opinion every time I read comments on any article even remotely touching on the subject in a tech forum.
  - yieldcrv 2y ago
    great, representation matters
Spooky23 2y ago
Nah. A compliance officer at his bank filed a SAR because he was structuring wire transfers to bypass his reporting requirement. He wasn’t using state funds. The Feds started poking around, and voilà. The Southern District of NY US Attorney was a big game hunter for politicians, so his goose was cooked. Ironically, the lieutenant governor who replaced him came out swinging, disclosing that he did inhale, regularly had sex outside of his marriage, did cocaine and various other things. Lol.
- Semaphor 2y ago
  > Ironically, the lieutenant governor who replaced him came out swinging, disclosing that he did inhale, regularly had sex outside of his marriage, did cocaine and various other things. Lol. Hah, how did he do?
  - fsckboy 2y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eliot_Spitzer_prostitution_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eliot_Spitzer_prostitution_sca... succeeded as governor by David Paterson, a blind man... nothing says a blind governor can't embezzle funds to spend on prostitutes, but perhaps it's less common? wikip: Paterson launched a campaign for a full term as governor in the 2010 New York gubernatorial election, but he announced on February 26, 2010, that he would bow out of the race. During the final year of his administration, Paterson faced allegations of soliciting improper gifts and making false statements; he was eventually fined in excess of $62,000 for accepting free New York Yankees tickets. He was not charged with perjury. He was succeeded as governor by https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Cuomo_sexual_harassment_allegations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Cuomo_sexual_harassment...

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

johnisgood 2y ago

Why is it limited to women in general? It affects everyone. And I wonder in what cases it is an issue for those, because we have cameras everywhere and people are fine with it. > Camera traps and drones deployed by government authorities to monitor a forest in India are infringing on the privacy and rights of local women. Why women specifically? Would it not affect me?! > The women, who previously found sanctuary in the forest away from their male-dominated villages, told Simlai they feel watched and inhibited by camera traps, so talk and sing much more quietly. This does not explain it. Men and women both do this. My Indian friend just went to visit a "retreat place" or whatever it is called for a week, there are both men an women. I would not want to be recorded in the forest either, nor anywhere else, but it is a "fact of life" I cannot do against. :|

sabbaticaldev 2y ago
> Why is it limited to women in general? It affects everyone John, you should ask this to men, why do men get obsessed over women and stalk them much more often? > Why women specifically? Would it not affect me?! do you have a history of being stalked by women? I don’t believe
- johnisgood 2y ago
  I actually do have a history of being stalked by women, e.g. my ex, a female, twice my age and "only" another female. So... in my entire life I have been stalked by women only, 2 women in total (as far I can recall). The whole thing is not limited to stalking anyways.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
dhfbshfbu4u3 2y ago
Sure, it effects everyone’s privacy but women are 99.99% more likely to be raped than men so perhaps they have a bit more to worry about.
- pvaldes 2y ago

raxxorraxor 2y ago

These are just accepted casualties of those pushing for video surveillance. We also know about the chilling effects of surveillance. Nobody seems to care.

ninalanyon 2y ago
> We also know about the chilling effects of surveillance. But do we really? > Nobody seems to care. Might it not also be the case that eventually people will simply assume that they are always under surveillance and that therefore they may as well do whatever they wish wherever they wish with the result that the behaviour that the surveillance sought to suppress actually becomes not merely more prevalent but also more public. See Clarke and Baxter's Light of Other Days for a fictional exploration of the subject.