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The problem with that is that it drains away your life energy in your late 20s and throughout your 30s, and in fact it's not only about draining one's energy, l

The problem with that is that it drains away your life energy in your late 20s and throughout your 30s, and in fact it's not only about draining one's energy, let's say that would be fine up to a point, but it drains away your purpose in life, and, in the end, your will to live. I refuse to believe that there are people whose purpose in life is to be a manager/VP, and, if they are, they might as well be walking corpses for all I know.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
mjr00 2y ago
> I refuse to believe that there are people whose purpose in life is to be be a manager/VP, and, if they are, they might as well be walking corpses for all I know. You could say the same thing about ICs though -- "I refuse to believe there are people whose purpose in life is to spend 5 days a week for 3 years building an enterprise line-of-business app to automate an obscure legacy business process that will be used by 10 people in total, and all 10 of those people will complain about the new app and wish they could go back to doing things the old way"
- ponector 2y ago
  And as VP you can make a ton of money and spend it wisely, make a difference to your extended family or even a community you live. That is a real meaning and sense of purpose for your earned money!
- paganel 2y ago
  The very fact of calling "computer programmers" as "ICs" is part of this syndrome, I'm not sure exactly when it started showing up, I'd say it was popularised by FAANGs, so maybe 2015-2016-ish?
  - sokoloff 2y ago
    I've heard the term (or "individual contributor") since at least the first dotcom boom in the late 90s.
    - bitwize 2y ago
      It's been in use in engineering for decades now. My father was familiar with the term in his career, and he's pre-boomer.
  - Ancalagon 2y ago
    Is IC offensive? I’ve never considered it to be. “Resources”, on the other hand, feels very offensive.
    - frmersdog 2y ago
      Well, taken at face value, it is a bit of an oxymoron. To contribute is to be part of a group; by definition, a contributor can't be wholly independent, because they're adding to a corpus, not producing it by themselves.
      - reshlo 2y ago
        It stands for Individual Contributor, not Independent Contributor.
        xboxnolifes 2y ago
        I don't read it negatively, but to play devil's advocate here... Managers are also individuals who are contributing to the group corpus. They just do it by interfacing with people instead of code. Though, that's just semantics on the naming. IC just means not having direct reports.
      - dullcrisp 2y ago
        Oh, I take it the other way. To me it implies that management doesn’t contribute anything on their own, which is kind of true but also kind of a funny phrasing.
      - cudgy 2y ago
        True. Who is not an individual contributor? I find the term meaningless.
  - mjr00 2y ago
    ICs aren't just computer programmers, they're designers, sales, marketing, customer support, etc. It's just an easier term for people who aren't managers than "not a manager".
CooCooCaCha 2y ago
The only way I know how to deal with this is FIRE. Investing as much as possible and working towards early retirement or semi-retirement so that you can at least live a good chunk of your life. The world we live in still sucks away the best years of your life but at least you don't have to wait until your 60s to live the life you want. You can also work on side projects in your spare time that will hopefully accelerate this process. This should be doable on a tech salary.
- ghaff 2y ago
  >you don't have to wait until your 60s to live the life you want But, at least at some point in your life, doing work within a company may provide that life. At some point, you're done. And that point may vary. But many people wouldn't really love (or at least benefit from) a bunch of money dropped in their lap when they graduated from college.
  - CooCooCaCha 2y ago
    I can 100% tell you it will not provide that life to a lot of people. I'm happy for you if it does but others like myself would rather kill themselves than work a 9-5 until they're 60.
    - ghaff 2y ago
      And a lot of those people would not have been in a position to start their own companies--much less succeed at it. Have a big trust fund? Sure. If it were from Day 1, depending on the circumstances, 9-5 would have been ehh. But not sure how directed I would have been absent strong parental direction.
      - CooCooCaCha 2y ago
        [flagged]
        ghaff 2y ago
analog31 2y ago
I've noticed that the successful ones have exceptional self discipline, part of which is not letting it affect your life as a person. Also, from their body language as observed through office windows and meeting rooms, they're spending a lot of their time socializing.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

mjr00 2y ago

> I refuse to believe that there are people whose purpose in life is to be be a manager/VP, and, if they are, they might as well be walking corpses for all I know. You could say the same thing about ICs though -- "I refuse to believe there are people whose purpose in life is to spend 5 days a week for 3 years building an enterprise line-of-business app to automate an obscure legacy business process that will be used by 10 people in total, and all 10 of those people will complain about the new app and wish they could go back to doing things the old way"

ponector 2y ago
And as VP you can make a ton of money and spend it wisely, make a difference to your extended family or even a community you live. That is a real meaning and sense of purpose for your earned money!
paganel 2y ago
The very fact of calling "computer programmers" as "ICs" is part of this syndrome, I'm not sure exactly when it started showing up, I'd say it was popularised by FAANGs, so maybe 2015-2016-ish?
- sokoloff 2y ago
  I've heard the term (or "individual contributor") since at least the first dotcom boom in the late 90s.
  - bitwize 2y ago
    It's been in use in engineering for decades now. My father was familiar with the term in his career, and he's pre-boomer.
- Ancalagon 2y ago
  Is IC offensive? I’ve never considered it to be. “Resources”, on the other hand, feels very offensive.
  - frmersdog 2y ago
    Well, taken at face value, it is a bit of an oxymoron. To contribute is to be part of a group; by definition, a contributor can't be wholly independent, because they're adding to a corpus, not producing it by themselves.
    - reshlo 2y ago
      It stands for Individual Contributor, not Independent Contributor.
      - xboxnolifes 2y ago
        I don't read it negatively, but to play devil's advocate here... Managers are also individuals who are contributing to the group corpus. They just do it by interfacing with people instead of code. Though, that's just semantics on the naming. IC just means not having direct reports.
    - dullcrisp 2y ago
      Oh, I take it the other way. To me it implies that management doesn’t contribute anything on their own, which is kind of true but also kind of a funny phrasing.
    - cudgy 2y ago
      True. Who is not an individual contributor? I find the term meaningless.
- mjr00 2y ago
  ICs aren't just computer programmers, they're designers, sales, marketing, customer support, etc. It's just an easier term for people who aren't managers than "not a manager".

CooCooCaCha 2y ago

The only way I know how to deal with this is FIRE. Investing as much as possible and working towards early retirement or semi-retirement so that you can at least live a good chunk of your life. The world we live in still sucks away the best years of your life but at least you don't have to wait until your 60s to live the life you want. You can also work on side projects in your spare time that will hopefully accelerate this process. This should be doable on a tech salary.

ghaff 2y ago
>you don't have to wait until your 60s to live the life you want But, at least at some point in your life, doing work within a company may provide that life. At some point, you're done. And that point may vary. But many people wouldn't really love (or at least benefit from) a bunch of money dropped in their lap when they graduated from college.
- CooCooCaCha 2y ago
  I can 100% tell you it will not provide that life to a lot of people. I'm happy for you if it does but others like myself would rather kill themselves than work a 9-5 until they're 60.
  - ghaff 2y ago
    And a lot of those people would not have been in a position to start their own companies--much less succeed at it. Have a big trust fund? Sure. If it were from Day 1, depending on the circumstances, 9-5 would have been ehh. But not sure how directed I would have been absent strong parental direction.
    - CooCooCaCha 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - ghaff 2y ago

analog31 2y ago

I've noticed that the successful ones have exceptional self discipline, part of which is not letting it affect your life as a person. Also, from their body language as observed through office windows and meeting rooms, they're spending a lot of their time socializing.