4 ms·

Serious question: why is this bad? Is it just the 3% false negative rate? I don't see the negative privacy implications of face recognition when the alternative

by Zanni 2y ago

Serious question: why is this bad? Is it just the 3% false negative rate? I don't see the negative privacy implications of face recognition when the alternative is to present your face (via photo ID) anyway.

mistrial9 2y ago
(American here) A quick search shows Pew Research, National Academies Press (associated with the Library Of Congress), AmericaUnderWatch dot com, Politico and Georgetown Law .. all with varying responses to this question. In the case of social structure and law, there are many layers, interwoven, and difficult or impossible to fit into chat-level responses.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
goodluckchuck 2y ago
The leviathan is often arbitrary and capricious.
perihelions 2y ago
I mean, it was living memory for many HN'ers that you could travel freely in the United States with doing either. It's a post-9/11 thing that an airline ticket is associated with a unique person, and requires a matching photo ID. There was a time when America's security forces did not routinely surveil its own peoples' movements.
- eesmith 2y ago
  When I was a kid there were classified ads like "Pan Am NYC Dec 20-28, E. Smith, $200 o.b.o" for people who wanted to resell their ticket because they couldn't make the trip. There were no id checks then. In the 1990s the airplanes jumped at the opportunity to have required id checks so they could take control of the secondary market. It was still possible to buy a ticket like "E. Smith", but that option was cut off a few years later.
jazzyjackson 2y ago
I enjoy traveling to Berlin for vacation, as it's a totally different atmosphere around privacy. Default payment is cash, your entry and exit from train stations is not tracked (surveilled perhaps, but you do not tap-in/tap-out or god forbid tap your credit card every time you step on a train like SF or NYC), and it's against the law to publish photographs of someone without their consent. Ask IBM what becomes of databases full of people's names associated with their movements.
- Zanni 2y ago
  I appreciate the response, but it seems that database can be constructed with or without facial recognition because photo ID is already required. So, I ask again, why is this bad?
  - jazzyjackson 2y ago
    Showing ID to pass a gate is somewhat different than having a timestamped record of the fact that you passed a gate, but I agree that given it's already surveilled it's not a big difference. Still, small differences add up.
- aaomidi 2y ago
  I think this is silly given how much Germany is actively helping a country where the PM of that country has an arrest warrant out for him through the ICC. Germany is still facilitating an alleged genocide. The only thing that has changed is the profile of the victims. The situation now is even worse, given that practically everyone in the world knows what’s happening but life is going on as normal.
  - raxxorraxor 2y ago
    You could have made a sensible argument about how security policies in Israel move in a wrong direction, even if it isn't at all on topic. But you stumbled here too.
    - 2y ago

by Zanni 2y ago

mistrial9 2y ago

(American here) A quick search shows Pew Research, National Academies Press (associated with the Library Of Congress), AmericaUnderWatch dot com, Politico and Georgetown Law .. all with varying responses to this question. In the case of social structure and law, there are many layers, interwoven, and difficult or impossible to fit into chat-level responses.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

goodluckchuck 2y ago

The leviathan is often arbitrary and capricious.

perihelions 2y ago

I mean, it was living memory for many HN'ers that you could travel freely in the United States with doing either. It's a post-9/11 thing that an airline ticket is associated with a unique person, and requires a matching photo ID. There was a time when America's security forces did not routinely surveil its own peoples' movements.

eesmith 2y ago
When I was a kid there were classified ads like "Pan Am NYC Dec 20-28, E. Smith, $200 o.b.o" for people who wanted to resell their ticket because they couldn't make the trip. There were no id checks then. In the 1990s the airplanes jumped at the opportunity to have required id checks so they could take control of the secondary market. It was still possible to buy a ticket like "E. Smith", but that option was cut off a few years later.

jazzyjackson 2y ago

I enjoy traveling to Berlin for vacation, as it's a totally different atmosphere around privacy. Default payment is cash, your entry and exit from train stations is not tracked (surveilled perhaps, but you do not tap-in/tap-out or god forbid tap your credit card every time you step on a train like SF or NYC), and it's against the law to publish photographs of someone without their consent. Ask IBM what becomes of databases full of people's names associated with their movements.

Zanni 2y ago
I appreciate the response, but it seems that database can be constructed with or without facial recognition because photo ID is already required. So, I ask again, why is this bad?
- jazzyjackson 2y ago
  Showing ID to pass a gate is somewhat different than having a timestamped record of the fact that you passed a gate, but I agree that given it's already surveilled it's not a big difference. Still, small differences add up.
aaomidi 2y ago
I think this is silly given how much Germany is actively helping a country where the PM of that country has an arrest warrant out for him through the ICC. Germany is still facilitating an alleged genocide. The only thing that has changed is the profile of the victims. The situation now is even worse, given that practically everyone in the world knows what’s happening but life is going on as normal.
- raxxorraxor 2y ago
  You could have made a sensible argument about how security policies in Israel move in a wrong direction, even if it isn't at all on topic. But you stumbled here too.
  - 2y ago