9 ms·
New study shows: EV batteries last much longer than expected
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- gnabgib 2y agoDiscussion (33 points, 3 days ago, 14 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42207110 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42207110
- ivewonyoung 2y agoThis was always "expected" by people in the know ever since the Model S came out in 2012 and there was real world data on cars with 100K+ miles. Didn't stop the oil lobby anti-EV myths from spreading far and wide. And now both political factions hate EVs so expect even more people to continue to think batteries die in a few years. EV companies wouldn't be warranting the battery degradation for hundreds of thousands of miles and several years if batteries died easily.
- recursive 2y ago> And now both political factions hate EVs A significant fraction of people have now actually driven them. It's going to be increasingly tough to tell spooky stories about EVs when your neighbor/friend/coworker has been driving one uneventfully for 4 years.
- bdangubic 2y ago2014 Tesla S, 80k miles, battery still getting me 230 range - not too much drop off. 99% of charges are at supercharger (which is also not supposed to be good for the battery)
- datavirtue 2y agoWe have been cut off from Chinese vehicles right when we need them the most.
- Panzer04 2y agoThis has always been true for anyone who knows anything. Batteries rapidly deteriorate from 100%, but the degradation gets slower the more capacity has already been lost. Even for consumer devices, battery aging and capacity loss is very slow after 70%, and they are exposed to much harsher conditions than EVs (no temp control, daily full cycling, etc).
- ivewonyoung 2y ago> This has always been true for anyone who knows anything Not sure that's true. I have seen comments on HN multiple times over the years claiming batteries die in a few years and were almost never downvoted.
- voussoir 2y agoThis might not be quite as strong a rebuttal as you were hoping for!
- throwaway290 2y agoHN downvotes are not signal for truth, just popularity.
- antisthenes 2y ago> I have seen comments on HN multiple times over the years claiming batteries die in a few years and were almost never downvoted. Car batteries - very unlikely. Cheap portable electronics made in China - all the time. The problem with these comments is that there are at least 10 different battery chemistries, and dozens of potential use cases and duty cycles you can put a battery through. So yes, some combination of that will make batteries die in a few years. Most won't.
- TexanFeller 2y agoVery slow degradation after reaching 70% capacity is cold comfort when EV batteries are barely adequate for many people at 100%. EVs typically start with ~300mi range. 70% of that is 210mi. I live in the city, but my parents live ~150mi away from the city along a route that has zero superchargers and only a handful of slow chargers along the way. I couldn't even visit my parents reasonably on a single charge, therefore my next car(s) will be a hybrid. Hybrid sedans can give me the traditional ~600mi range so I can drive from Austin to Ft. Worth and back before filling up a small tank.
- Workaccount2 2y agoIt's unexpected because batteries are rated based on full charge/discharge cycles. But in reality it's comparatively very rare for those full cycles to happen. People overwhelming drive <40 miles a day and top off the battery regularly.
- Gibbon1 2y agoI'm not an expert but I've designed stuff with batteries for a long time. A large battery with proper charge and thermal management will last much longer under light service. Which is exactly what you have with longer range EV's. A battery rated at a 1000 full discharge cycles will probably last 5,000 light duty cycles. However people are mostly used to batteries in consumer products which utterly abuse cheap batteries to save money.
- davedunkin 2y agoHow can I get my Nissan Leaf to read this paper? Its range has dropped to 50% of new and a refurbished replacement pack cost 150% the value of the car, which is in otherwise excellent condition. It has only 70k miles.
- pcdoodle 2y agoSince the Leaf has a smaller battery, it get's more wear and tear per trip.
- Astronaut3315 2y agoIt also lacks active thermal management. That's more or less a requirement for long battery life.
- _yb2s 2y agoProbably depends on the climate and use case… early EVs with no thermal management seems to last forever in coastal areas with mild climates, and slow heavy traffic
- cowmix 2y agoTHIS. The ARIYA is the first EV they've widely released (last year) with any active thermal management. I live in AZ, and all my friends with Leaf's all have had to have their batteries replaced at least once. All my Chevy based EV/PHEVs have had great battery life (so far) - knock on wood.
- davedunkin 2y agoI'm also in AZ. What's surprising to me is I get slightly better range in the summer months.
- BonoboIO 2y agoI think this is the answer. That is also a problem for hybrid powers vehicles, the battery is small and it gets charged and discharged 0-100 / 100-0 very often, if you use the hybrid as intended. Some manufacturers limit this, but in a few years we will see a lot of hybrids that have batteries that barely work and will not deliver the expected ev only distance by a lot.
- agumonkey 2y agoAfter break pads, another good news I see :)
- ggernov 2y agoThis is why I opted for a hybrid Camry over a new Tesla. I kept my previous car for 13yrs and still sold it for $11k.
- foxyv 2y agoGreat, now put them on busses and trams. Cars suck.