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> I hope the current engineers leave a better note for the engineers of the next century. I don't like what you are saying. A more poetic note is not "better".

> I hope the current engineers leave a better note for the engineers of the next century. I don't like what you are saying. A more poetic note is not "better". You think it is, and that certainly can be your value but you are not the one fixing the light house. It is perfectly fine if all they did is to just write down who they were and what they were doing. They don't owe you some poetic inspiring letter just because they were in a place you associate with poetry. And certainly it wouldn't be "better" in an objective sense. In fact it would be less true if that is not the feeling they had. If they were sitting there thinking "need more grease so this bearing doesn't seize up" but wrote "Beacon stands steadfast,/ Waves crash 'gainst its ageless stone—/ A hymn to the stars." That would be worse, because it would be inauthentic.

upghost 2y ago
I think the point is that this type of content of the message usually goes on something like an engraved plaque or a something that would go in a public records office. In fact, no one would have even clicked on this story and it would not be on HN if the story were "dusty plaque found in lighthouse". A "message in a bottle", especially at a lighthouse, conjures the romantic idea of a secret easter egg. I get what you are saying, but try to understand what was being said by the person you were responding to as well!
- OJFord 2y ago
  To be honest I was surprised at the newsworthiness given it was hidden in the lighthouse (not a message in a bottle at sea) and then in that context only 132 years old. If I started lifting floorboards and breaking plaster at home I'm fairly confident I'd find something older. At school we buried a 'time capsule' for the millennium I think for 50 years thence. That'll be cool for the pupils in 2050, but it won't be news.
  - bryanrasmussen 2y ago
    > only 132 years old. You're in the UK, the article is in the NY Times - 132 years old seems older to an American than it does to you, that combined with the message in bottle in lighthouse and Scotland all together sparked interest.
    - aspenmayer 2y ago
      Reminds me of the adage, I’m not sure by whom, paraphrasing: > Americans think 100 years is a long time; Brits think 100 miles is a long way.
    - OJFord 2y ago
      I read it on the BBC linked elsewhere in comments, since it contained the text of the letter and this thread (with the text in top-level comment) didn't exist at the time.
    - tocs3 2y ago
      "132 years old seems older to an American than it does to you" As an American, I take some small exception here. I have met people who were alive when this letter was written. 132 years was a long time ago, but not that long.
      - bryanrasmussen 2y ago
        OK I am just going to venture a guess that most people you meet in your day to day think of you as old. Of course you may be an outlier in that. Your architectural experiences may also be an outlier, but I think you will probably admit that most Americans have not lived in a 100+ year old house, hey, a good number of them might live in places where you have to drive hours to find a building that old. This is in contrast to much of the world I believe, it is at any rate definitely in contrast to Europe. on edit: this is of course not 100% reasoned through, this being HN someone could of course make a map showing how close in the U.S any person is to a building over 100+ years, or they could show that perhaps if you take the major population centers into account it will show that actually a majority of the population does in fact live within walking distance of such an old building, but all that taken into account I'm going to stick to my guns that to most Americans a house of 100+ years old is real old, and to everybody in the area I live in it's just home.
        tocs3 2y ago
        I 55yo. I think any people 40s+ would have meet 90-100 yo family members in their youth. I lived in in a 1870s house in a town in Connecticut and most of the houses on Main St. were of that vintage. It is not so uncommon in New England. Of course percentage wise I imagine most people in the US (and else where) live in structures younger. The house I a in now (my father built) is about 50yo and my grandparents house (that we inherited) is 80yo+. I spoke with an English engineer once who lived in a 400-500yo house in England and he knew an Egyptian who had lived in a house in the 1000s years old range. I suppose the terms "young" and "old" are fairly relative.
  - grogenaut 2y ago
    We buried time capsules in 7th grade to dig up when we graduated. They weren't there, but a bus stop shelter was. Also the English teacher lead the project. They switched to the math and science professors thereafter.
    - akovaski 2y ago
      This is why it's important to test your backups.
bryanrasmussen 2y ago
Is authenticity better than inauthenticity? If you think yes - is Ted Nugent a better artist than David Bowie?
- volemo 2y ago
  Is such comparison even applicable to artists? I believe one artist can be more popular, better selling, more impactful in their field, but better?
Exuma 2y ago
Yes it is. That is, after all, the entire point of a message in a bottle (unless you're trapped on an island, that is). A fun, whimsical idea so people in some other region or time can get a glimpse of the world you're in. A list of names is extremely unexciting.
- krisoft 2y ago
  > people in some other region or time can get a glimpse of the world you're in. Yes. And we the people of a different time got a glimpse into the world they were in. > A list of names is extremely unexciting. Nevertheless that is what was important for them. That is their world. You don’t want a glimpse into their world. You want their world to conform to your idea of what it must feel like to be on a lighthouse.
  - Exuma 2y ago
    Do you think humor and intrigue was invented in 2023? The lighthouse is irrelevant. The message in the bottle is relevant. "The world they live in" assuredly had creativity, humor, that could be tapped. "Nevertheless..." so you basically agree its extremely unexciting? That's the point. Would you click this post if it said "list creators of lighthouse found on piece of paper inside lighthouse"? The point of a message in the bottle is that it's to make something legitimately interesting for the person reading (assuming it's not attempting to save a persons life stranded on an island)... Presumably the people doing this entire exercise were aware of that. When you take part in some activity, there is an expected amount of context which you are expected to have awareness of, similar to how when you make a movie, while you CAN kill off the main character in a cliffhanger unsatisfying way, you also have to expect people are going to hate your movie. The fact that a bunch of engineers thought this was "most interesting" is, in itself not surprising I guess. But people lamenting that they could have done a lot better, is 100% valid. > You want their world to conform to your idea of what it must feel like to be on a lighthouse for other "lighthouse people" False. I literally want to read something interesting if I'm pulling a piece of paper out of a 100 year old bottle. There is an entire universe of topics besides a laundry list of names that could be done. They didn't because they thought this was what people 100 years in the future should see. Therefore, the entire experiment of "message in a bottle" is about as boring as it could possibly be. You literally couldn't make it more boring if you tried. Maybe a blank sheet of paper? The fact these names were meaningful to them, and the fact that this is an extremely boring outcome and leave people wanting more, can exist simultaneously. I will mention the one saving grace is that it was left in the lighthouse As an analogy, if I found 100 year old bottle in the floorboards of my house, a list of names could be made more interesting with... a photo, what their occupations are... what their favorite hobby or cherished item is, what used to be on the land before our house, what crops used to grow there, how the land was found, what kind of deed purchase it was, where they immigrated from. Literally 1000s of ideas to add detail.
PittleyDunkin 2y ago
Oh god, not inauthenticity! The greatest of all crimes.
aprilthird2021 2y ago
So odd, if you told any of your loved ones, or a random stranger, "Hey they found a hundred+ year old message in a bottle recently, want to hear what it said?" The person would of course want to know and of course be disappointed to find out it's essentially the credits for who built a lighthouse, and yet tons of HN'ers are super mad at the insinuation that the letter ended up being more or less a waste.
- notnaut 2y ago
  The imbedded disdain a lot of tech minded people have for anything frivolous ought to tell you why so many of them have a hard time finding meaning, comfort, human connection.
  - pfdietz 2y ago
    So, the diametric opposite of all those tech people who are furries.
  - krisoft 2y ago
    > imbedded disdain a lot of tech minded people have for anything frivolous My disdain is not for things frivolous. I'm a big fan of frivolous things. My disdain is for those who wish these long departed engineers did things in order to entertain us in this day and age. If they, the original engineers, would have wanted to write a poem that would be great. That is their choice. We got a glimpse into their world and the commenter doesn't like what they see. Saying that what they did wasn't the right thing to do assumes that the commenter ideas are more correct than their ideas. That's arrogant. If you think it's not the right message, go restore your own lighthouse and leave the message you want to leave. Instead of telling others what they should have.
    - aprilthird2021 2y ago
      > My disdain is for those who wish these long departed engineers did things in order to entertain us in this day and age. Surely you don't think they are actually upset at some people none of us know for not writing a poetic message. The point is: "Wow, we found a hundreds of years old message, what amazing insights of the past might we glean, what insights into the minds of that time?" "Oh, it's just a list of who built a lighthouse" > Saying that what they did wasn't the right thing to do assumes that the commenter ideas are more correct than their ideas. That's arrogant. I will butt in here though, if you have a chance to drift out a message to sea with some hope someone else may find it one day and read what you wrote, would you write that you were the author of some open source project? Or would you write something about your real feelings, the world around you, your thoughts and hopes and dreams, or maybe even share something about your town, your ancestors, your culture, the things you care about, etc. Most of us, I'm sure, would not choose to do the former.

upghost 2y ago

I think the point is that this type of content of the message usually goes on something like an engraved plaque or a something that would go in a public records office. In fact, no one would have even clicked on this story and it would not be on HN if the story were "dusty plaque found in lighthouse". A "message in a bottle", especially at a lighthouse, conjures the romantic idea of a secret easter egg. I get what you are saying, but try to understand what was being said by the person you were responding to as well!

OJFord 2y ago
To be honest I was surprised at the newsworthiness given it was hidden in the lighthouse (not a message in a bottle at sea) and then in that context only 132 years old. If I started lifting floorboards and breaking plaster at home I'm fairly confident I'd find something older. At school we buried a 'time capsule' for the millennium I think for 50 years thence. That'll be cool for the pupils in 2050, but it won't be news.
- bryanrasmussen 2y ago
  > only 132 years old. You're in the UK, the article is in the NY Times - 132 years old seems older to an American than it does to you, that combined with the message in bottle in lighthouse and Scotland all together sparked interest.
  - aspenmayer 2y ago
    Reminds me of the adage, I’m not sure by whom, paraphrasing: > Americans think 100 years is a long time; Brits think 100 miles is a long way.
  - OJFord 2y ago
    I read it on the BBC linked elsewhere in comments, since it contained the text of the letter and this thread (with the text in top-level comment) didn't exist at the time.
  - tocs3 2y ago
    "132 years old seems older to an American than it does to you" As an American, I take some small exception here. I have met people who were alive when this letter was written. 132 years was a long time ago, but not that long.
    - bryanrasmussen 2y ago
      OK I am just going to venture a guess that most people you meet in your day to day think of you as old. Of course you may be an outlier in that. Your architectural experiences may also be an outlier, but I think you will probably admit that most Americans have not lived in a 100+ year old house, hey, a good number of them might live in places where you have to drive hours to find a building that old. This is in contrast to much of the world I believe, it is at any rate definitely in contrast to Europe. on edit: this is of course not 100% reasoned through, this being HN someone could of course make a map showing how close in the U.S any person is to a building over 100+ years, or they could show that perhaps if you take the major population centers into account it will show that actually a majority of the population does in fact live within walking distance of such an old building, but all that taken into account I'm going to stick to my guns that to most Americans a house of 100+ years old is real old, and to everybody in the area I live in it's just home.
      - tocs3 2y ago
        I 55yo. I think any people 40s+ would have meet 90-100 yo family members in their youth. I lived in in a 1870s house in a town in Connecticut and most of the houses on Main St. were of that vintage. It is not so uncommon in New England. Of course percentage wise I imagine most people in the US (and else where) live in structures younger. The house I a in now (my father built) is about 50yo and my grandparents house (that we inherited) is 80yo+. I spoke with an English engineer once who lived in a 400-500yo house in England and he knew an Egyptian who had lived in a house in the 1000s years old range. I suppose the terms "young" and "old" are fairly relative.
- grogenaut 2y ago
  We buried time capsules in 7th grade to dig up when we graduated. They weren't there, but a bus stop shelter was. Also the English teacher lead the project. They switched to the math and science professors thereafter.
  - akovaski 2y ago
    This is why it's important to test your backups.

bryanrasmussen 2y ago

Is authenticity better than inauthenticity? If you think yes - is Ted Nugent a better artist than David Bowie?

volemo 2y ago
Is such comparison even applicable to artists? I believe one artist can be more popular, better selling, more impactful in their field, but better?

Exuma 2y ago

Yes it is. That is, after all, the entire point of a message in a bottle (unless you're trapped on an island, that is). A fun, whimsical idea so people in some other region or time can get a glimpse of the world you're in. A list of names is extremely unexciting.

krisoft 2y ago
> people in some other region or time can get a glimpse of the world you're in. Yes. And we the people of a different time got a glimpse into the world they were in. > A list of names is extremely unexciting. Nevertheless that is what was important for them. That is their world. You don’t want a glimpse into their world. You want their world to conform to your idea of what it must feel like to be on a lighthouse.
- Exuma 2y ago
  Do you think humor and intrigue was invented in 2023? The lighthouse is irrelevant. The message in the bottle is relevant. "The world they live in" assuredly had creativity, humor, that could be tapped. "Nevertheless..." so you basically agree its extremely unexciting? That's the point. Would you click this post if it said "list creators of lighthouse found on piece of paper inside lighthouse"? The point of a message in the bottle is that it's to make something legitimately interesting for the person reading (assuming it's not attempting to save a persons life stranded on an island)... Presumably the people doing this entire exercise were aware of that. When you take part in some activity, there is an expected amount of context which you are expected to have awareness of, similar to how when you make a movie, while you CAN kill off the main character in a cliffhanger unsatisfying way, you also have to expect people are going to hate your movie. The fact that a bunch of engineers thought this was "most interesting" is, in itself not surprising I guess. But people lamenting that they could have done a lot better, is 100% valid. > You want their world to conform to your idea of what it must feel like to be on a lighthouse for other "lighthouse people" False. I literally want to read something interesting if I'm pulling a piece of paper out of a 100 year old bottle. There is an entire universe of topics besides a laundry list of names that could be done. They didn't because they thought this was what people 100 years in the future should see. Therefore, the entire experiment of "message in a bottle" is about as boring as it could possibly be. You literally couldn't make it more boring if you tried. Maybe a blank sheet of paper? The fact these names were meaningful to them, and the fact that this is an extremely boring outcome and leave people wanting more, can exist simultaneously. I will mention the one saving grace is that it was left in the lighthouse As an analogy, if I found 100 year old bottle in the floorboards of my house, a list of names could be made more interesting with... a photo, what their occupations are... what their favorite hobby or cherished item is, what used to be on the land before our house, what crops used to grow there, how the land was found, what kind of deed purchase it was, where they immigrated from. Literally 1000s of ideas to add detail.

PittleyDunkin 2y ago

Oh god, not inauthenticity! The greatest of all crimes.

aprilthird2021 2y ago

So odd, if you told any of your loved ones, or a random stranger, "Hey they found a hundred+ year old message in a bottle recently, want to hear what it said?" The person would of course want to know and of course be disappointed to find out it's essentially the credits for who built a lighthouse, and yet tons of HN'ers are super mad at the insinuation that the letter ended up being more or less a waste.

notnaut 2y ago
The imbedded disdain a lot of tech minded people have for anything frivolous ought to tell you why so many of them have a hard time finding meaning, comfort, human connection.
- pfdietz 2y ago
  So, the diametric opposite of all those tech people who are furries.
- krisoft 2y ago
  > imbedded disdain a lot of tech minded people have for anything frivolous My disdain is not for things frivolous. I'm a big fan of frivolous things. My disdain is for those who wish these long departed engineers did things in order to entertain us in this day and age. If they, the original engineers, would have wanted to write a poem that would be great. That is their choice. We got a glimpse into their world and the commenter doesn't like what they see. Saying that what they did wasn't the right thing to do assumes that the commenter ideas are more correct than their ideas. That's arrogant. If you think it's not the right message, go restore your own lighthouse and leave the message you want to leave. Instead of telling others what they should have.
  - aprilthird2021 2y ago
    > My disdain is for those who wish these long departed engineers did things in order to entertain us in this day and age. Surely you don't think they are actually upset at some people none of us know for not writing a poetic message. The point is: "Wow, we found a hundreds of years old message, what amazing insights of the past might we glean, what insights into the minds of that time?" "Oh, it's just a list of who built a lighthouse" > Saying that what they did wasn't the right thing to do assumes that the commenter ideas are more correct than their ideas. That's arrogant. I will butt in here though, if you have a chance to drift out a message to sea with some hope someone else may find it one day and read what you wrote, would you write that you were the author of some open source project? Or would you write something about your real feelings, the world around you, your thoughts and hopes and dreams, or maybe even share something about your town, your ancestors, your culture, the things you care about, etc. Most of us, I'm sure, would not choose to do the former.