3 ms·

Legalities aside, isn't this the end game for most profit driven companies? Isn't Matt just doing his job here, trying to drive an increase in revenue? I'm not

by hi_hi 2y ago

Legalities aside, isn't this the end game for most profit driven companies? Isn't Matt just doing his job here, trying to drive an increase in revenue? I'm not saying I like it, but, ethics aside (and lets not play dumb here, when do ethics drive business, unless it affects profit), I'm struggling to understand all the outrage over his actions?

tliltocatl 2y ago
Not behaving in such a way that will cause people to avoid you in the future isn't about ethics. It's about reputation.
- hi_hi 2y ago
  Don't ethics and reputation go hand in hand?
noirbot 2y ago
But the legalities are the important part of this. You may as well say "Legalities aside, robbing your competitors at gunpoint is a good idea, if unethical". He's essentially setting up a system where if you ever make too much money off of his project, he's very willing to extort you and do plenty of unethical and likely illegal things to you. That's extremely important to the considerations of companies who may be interested in going into business with Wordpress.
- pessimizer 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - axelthegerman 2y ago
    I have no clue what you're trying to say or add to the parent comment.
  - noirbot 2y ago
    Sure, but saying "isn't this just what any capitalist would do" necessarily demands a discussion of the legalities. Trying to ignore if it's legal or not in a discussion of if it's a normal end game for all companies is absurd. If it was legal to murder your business rivals, then sure, it would likely be fairly normal to do so, but it's not, so what's the point of mentioning it? The outrage over his actions is specifically because it's likely not legal or ethical. Compare to the stuff Tim Sweeney is doing in his fight with Apple - he's done a lot of stuff that I would say is decidedly unethical, but understandable. It's also things where he's willing to pay the costs of doing it. Matt seems to fully believe this is legal, ethical, and completely justified and deserves to be lauded.
viraptor 2y ago
There's lots of companies with leadership that prioritises ethical approach. It's sad that people don't realise it these days / think it's that uncommon. (I've read this opinion here at least 3 times recently)
- hi_hi 2y ago
  I wasn't suggesting there weren't ethical companies. Indeed, I would hope, given the amount of companies out there, some high percentage of them were ethical. I agree they are overshadowed though. I would probably add it's hard to know if a company is acting ethically (whatever that means) or not, unless there's some kind of formal certification which does this?
axelthegerman 2y ago
Except that for profit companies usually stay within the legal limits - or if they don't their smart and calculated about it. This guy is just going nuts and most likely non of his actions would be looked at favourably in any legal dispute. And if the most likely outcome of a legal dispute is loosing then that's not really a good way to try increasing revenue/profits. On top of that if your business is founded on open source and you're behaving like this you're destroying that whole foundation - and burning the whole thing down likely won't increase and profits either
karaterobot 2y ago
Destroying your company's brand is not the end game for most profit-driven companies. It's usually the end state, to be fair, but an end game is something you're trying to achieve, not something you're bungling you way into like this.

by hi_hi 2y ago

tliltocatl 2y ago

Not behaving in such a way that will cause people to avoid you in the future isn't about ethics. It's about reputation.

hi_hi 2y ago
Don't ethics and reputation go hand in hand?

noirbot 2y ago

But the legalities are the important part of this. You may as well say "Legalities aside, robbing your competitors at gunpoint is a good idea, if unethical". He's essentially setting up a system where if you ever make too much money off of his project, he's very willing to extort you and do plenty of unethical and likely illegal things to you. That's extremely important to the considerations of companies who may be interested in going into business with Wordpress.

pessimizer 2y ago
[flagged]
- axelthegerman 2y ago
  I have no clue what you're trying to say or add to the parent comment.
- noirbot 2y ago
  Sure, but saying "isn't this just what any capitalist would do" necessarily demands a discussion of the legalities. Trying to ignore if it's legal or not in a discussion of if it's a normal end game for all companies is absurd. If it was legal to murder your business rivals, then sure, it would likely be fairly normal to do so, but it's not, so what's the point of mentioning it? The outrage over his actions is specifically because it's likely not legal or ethical. Compare to the stuff Tim Sweeney is doing in his fight with Apple - he's done a lot of stuff that I would say is decidedly unethical, but understandable. It's also things where he's willing to pay the costs of doing it. Matt seems to fully believe this is legal, ethical, and completely justified and deserves to be lauded.

viraptor 2y ago

There's lots of companies with leadership that prioritises ethical approach. It's sad that people don't realise it these days / think it's that uncommon. (I've read this opinion here at least 3 times recently)

hi_hi 2y ago
I wasn't suggesting there weren't ethical companies. Indeed, I would hope, given the amount of companies out there, some high percentage of them were ethical. I agree they are overshadowed though. I would probably add it's hard to know if a company is acting ethically (whatever that means) or not, unless there's some kind of formal certification which does this?

axelthegerman 2y ago

Except that for profit companies usually stay within the legal limits - or if they don't their smart and calculated about it. This guy is just going nuts and most likely non of his actions would be looked at favourably in any legal dispute. And if the most likely outcome of a legal dispute is loosing then that's not really a good way to try increasing revenue/profits. On top of that if your business is founded on open source and you're behaving like this you're destroying that whole foundation - and burning the whole thing down likely won't increase and profits either

karaterobot 2y ago

Destroying your company's brand is not the end game for most profit-driven companies. It's usually the end state, to be fair, but an end game is something you're trying to achieve, not something you're bungling you way into like this.