6 ms·

Wordpress.org released Secure Custom Fields "PRO" version with ACF pro features

59 points by ValentineC 2y ago

KolmogorovComp 2y ago
If your IP is blocked https://eddrit.com/r/Wordpress/comments/1gy8bud/wordpressorg_has_apparently_released_secure/ https://eddrit.com/r/Wordpress/comments/1gy8bud/wordpressorg...
AstroJetson 2y ago
Ugg. I'd like to hope that Matt had hired better legal advice. But that didn't happen. Matt this isn't going to end well for anyone. The first rule of holes is "STOP DIGGING" Can you put down the shovel for awhile and try talking to people?
- freerobby 2y ago
  Any recommended article/link to get the backstory on this situation?
  - xnx 2y ago
    "Matt Mullenweg is showing the world that he’s one of the pettiest CEOs out there." https://slate.com/technology/2024/10/wordpress-wpengine-matt-mullenweg-drama-explained.html https://slate.com/technology/2024/10/wordpress-wpengine-matt...
    - freerobby 2y ago
      Thanks.
  - acemarke 2y ago
    This article is the canonical recap of what's happened: - https://joshcollinsworth.com/blog/fire-matt https://joshcollinsworth.com/blog/fire-matt
    - 3np 2y ago
      Also: - https://bullenweg.org/ https://bullenweg.org/ (formerly bullenweg.com: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41957829 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41957829)
  - demetris 2y ago
    The Mullenweg/WPE thing is the one I recommend: https://gist.github.com/adrienne/aea9dd7ca19c8985157d9c42f7fc225d https://gist.github.com/adrienne/aea9dd7ca19c8985157d9c42f7f... It is a chronology published as a GitHub gist.
- nicce 2y ago
  Maybe it is sometimes okay that people get what they deserve based on their actions? Whatever the result here will be. Otherwise they will never learn. Is it more okay to do questionable things first and then later hide behind lawyer than just keeping doing it openly?
legitster 2y ago
It will be interesting when Matt changes his story yet again and issues yet another non-apology. At this point I'm honestly surprised there are not criminal charges. Just blatantly stealing another business's property/storefront, and then threatening to do the same to other businesses is a shockingly brazen thing to do.
- pixxel 2y ago
  > Just blatantly stealing another business's (WP Engine) property/storefront Context: WP Engine is controlled by Silver Lake, a private equity firm with $102 billion in assets under management
  - angoragoats 2y ago
    Your statement is both true and not at all relevant to the parent comment.
    - cdolan 2y ago
      People love to hate private equity Somewhere between $1m and $102b you become the enemy
      - angoragoats 2y ago
        Yes, sure. It's still not relevant to what the parent comment said.
  - kmeisthax 2y ago
    Addl. Context: Matt Mullenweg was invested in WP Engine before Silver Lake bought him out.
  - legitster 2y ago
    Automattic is owned by a group of private investors worth trillions of dollars. The "private equity" angle is a rhetorically meaningless point made by an out-of-touch bully trying to put a moralistic spin on his own greed.
daft_pink 2y ago
It’s just whatever for most people using Wordpress is the most practical thing and who cares about wpengine.
- oysterville 2y ago
  Quite the broad paint brush. Many of us will look at a train going off of the rails and make different travel plans.
- noirbot 2y ago
  Do you not think the endgame of this is to funnel everyone to Automattic and then raise the rates now that he's exerted a monopoly over Wordpress hosting? Because at this point, I don't see what other exist he has here. This is pure "I own all of Wordpress and it's no longer open source and I can charge anything I want" or he's going to be bankrupted by the lawsuits.
  - defnotai 2y ago
    I doubt this, there are dozens of hosting options for WP out there. I think he was threatened by WPEngine’s approach as a more popular offering than Wordpress.com and decided to go scorched-earth on them instead of trying compete on the merits of their product. He’s threatening anyone that tries to build bespoke hosting with extra tools like ACF.
  - kmeisthax 2y ago
    > This is pure "I own all of Wordpress and it's no longer open source and I can charge anything I want" or he's going to be bankrupted by the lawsuits. Automattic doesn't own WordPress, for two reasons: 1. WordPress is a fork of b2/cafelog, developed by Michel Valdrighi, and that fork was made under GPL terms 2. WordPress does not have a contributor license agreement or other policy that would require licensing or assigning ownership of upstream contributions to Automattic in a way that would allow them to shirk their responsibilities under the GPL They're betting on those bankrupting lawsuits never coming because the plaintiffs can't afford to front them. That's a common risk calculation made by private equity owned companies - of which Automattic is also one[0], they're owned by BlackRock. Automattic does not have a monopoly over WordPress hosting. They bullied several of the major players in the managed WordPress space into paying trademark licensing fees. WP Engine, being exactly the kind of skinflint operation Matt accuses them of, didn't pay up, but they're absolutely going to stick around. The worst thing Matt can do is extract damages and demand a rebrand (since, well, "WP Engine" really does sound like "WordPress Engine"). He can't legally prevent anyone from hosting WordPress. [0] Yes, every accusation really is a confession.
hi_hi 2y ago
Legalities aside, isn't this the end game for most profit driven companies? Isn't Matt just doing his job here, trying to drive an increase in revenue? I'm not saying I like it, but, ethics aside (and lets not play dumb here, when do ethics drive business, unless it affects profit), I'm struggling to understand all the outrage over his actions?
- tliltocatl 2y ago
  Not behaving in such a way that will cause people to avoid you in the future isn't about ethics. It's about reputation.
  - hi_hi 2y ago
    Don't ethics and reputation go hand in hand?
- noirbot 2y ago
  But the legalities are the important part of this. You may as well say "Legalities aside, robbing your competitors at gunpoint is a good idea, if unethical". He's essentially setting up a system where if you ever make too much money off of his project, he's very willing to extort you and do plenty of unethical and likely illegal things to you. That's extremely important to the considerations of companies who may be interested in going into business with Wordpress.
  - pessimizer 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - axelthegerman 2y ago
      I have no clue what you're trying to say or add to the parent comment.
    - noirbot 2y ago
      Sure, but saying "isn't this just what any capitalist would do" necessarily demands a discussion of the legalities. Trying to ignore if it's legal or not in a discussion of if it's a normal end game for all companies is absurd. If it was legal to murder your business rivals, then sure, it would likely be fairly normal to do so, but it's not, so what's the point of mentioning it? The outrage over his actions is specifically because it's likely not legal or ethical. Compare to the stuff Tim Sweeney is doing in his fight with Apple - he's done a lot of stuff that I would say is decidedly unethical, but understandable. It's also things where he's willing to pay the costs of doing it. Matt seems to fully believe this is legal, ethical, and completely justified and deserves to be lauded.
dotancohen 2y ago
The Secure Custom Fields extension page [1] states this: > Features > - Millions of Users And also states this in the sidebar: > Active installations: Fewer than 10 That seems to support the accusations that this code is simply the nulled version of ACF's paid extension. [1] https://wordpress.org/plugins/secure-custom-fields/ https://wordpress.org/plugins/secure-custom-fields/
throwaway888abc 2y ago
Isn't this theft ?
- kmeisthax 2y ago
  Morally, kind of. Legally, even taking the whole "copyright infringement equals theft" attitude at face value, it's not, because WordPress is GPL and GPL explicitly forbids adding new restrictive terms to the license, and also forbids combining it with more restrictively licensed code. In fact, in the past, Automattic did to Envato what they did to WP Engine specifically because Envato had taken the position that nulled plugins are infringing. Of course, Automattic is now suing Festingervault for hosting nulled plugins, because Matt Mullenweg doesn't have principles, he has emotions.
  - beeboobaa6 2y ago
    It's a plugin, not a modification of WordPress. Wordpresses license is irrelevant.
    - viraptor 2y ago
      Plugins as code that is integrated with WP are still required to be GPL-compatible. Unless you want to connect to your plugin through some layer of networking and a GPL licensed proxy, your plugins need to be open as well. Specifically running something as basic as register_activation_hook() means you're linking with WP-provided code.
    - jazzyjackson 2y ago
      Whether a plugin is standalone or a combined program (and therefore a derivation) is apparently a matter of debate. Sounds like if you so much as use a data structure defined by WordPress, then by distributing your software you're really distributing a modified version of WordPress. [My read of 0] This is intuitive enough for me, if you can't use my plugin without WordPress, then really what I'm shipping is WordPress + my changes. However, some plugins are distributed with a "split license", the php that integrated with WordPress is GPLd, but JavaScript, css, other assets are under a different license. [1] I don't think this has been tested in court one way or another. Matt of course considers this heresy [2] [0] https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.en.html#GPLPlugins https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.en.html#GPLPlugins [1] https://www.contentpowered.com/blog/wordpress-plugins-free-gpl/ https://www.contentpowered.com/blog/wordpress-plugins-free-g... [2] https://ma.tt/2015/07/licenses-going-dutch/?utm_source=perplexity https://ma.tt/2015/07/licenses-going-dutch/?utm_source=perpl...
ChrisArchitect 2y ago
Can we just link to the thing: https://wordpress.org/plugins/secure-custom-fields/ https://wordpress.org/plugins/secure-custom-fields/
DamnInteresting 2y ago
I have a Wordpress site I've been operating since 2005. In recent days I've seen notifications that a Wordpress core update is available, and I find myself very reluctant to install it. I no longer trust this organization. But I also don't want to fall behind on security updates. What an unnecessary mess.

59 points by ValentineC 2y ago

If your IP is blocked https://eddrit.com/r/Wordpress/comments/1gy8bud/wordpressorg_has_apparently_released_secure/ https://eddrit.com/r/Wordpress/comments/1gy8bud/wordpressorg...

AstroJetson 2y ago

Ugg. I'd like to hope that Matt had hired better legal advice. But that didn't happen. Matt this isn't going to end well for anyone. The first rule of holes is "STOP DIGGING" Can you put down the shovel for awhile and try talking to people?

freerobby 2y ago
Any recommended article/link to get the backstory on this situation?
- xnx 2y ago
  "Matt Mullenweg is showing the world that he’s one of the pettiest CEOs out there." https://slate.com/technology/2024/10/wordpress-wpengine-matt-mullenweg-drama-explained.html https://slate.com/technology/2024/10/wordpress-wpengine-matt...
  - freerobby 2y ago
    Thanks.
- acemarke 2y ago
  This article is the canonical recap of what's happened: - https://joshcollinsworth.com/blog/fire-matt https://joshcollinsworth.com/blog/fire-matt
  - 3np 2y ago
    Also: - https://bullenweg.org/ https://bullenweg.org/ (formerly bullenweg.com: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41957829 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41957829)
- demetris 2y ago
  The Mullenweg/WPE thing is the one I recommend: https://gist.github.com/adrienne/aea9dd7ca19c8985157d9c42f7fc225d https://gist.github.com/adrienne/aea9dd7ca19c8985157d9c42f7f... It is a chronology published as a GitHub gist.
nicce 2y ago
Maybe it is sometimes okay that people get what they deserve based on their actions? Whatever the result here will be. Otherwise they will never learn. Is it more okay to do questionable things first and then later hide behind lawyer than just keeping doing it openly?

legitster 2y ago

It will be interesting when Matt changes his story yet again and issues yet another non-apology. At this point I'm honestly surprised there are not criminal charges. Just blatantly stealing another business's property/storefront, and then threatening to do the same to other businesses is a shockingly brazen thing to do.

pixxel 2y ago
> Just blatantly stealing another business's (WP Engine) property/storefront Context: WP Engine is controlled by Silver Lake, a private equity firm with $102 billion in assets under management
- angoragoats 2y ago
  Your statement is both true and not at all relevant to the parent comment.
  - cdolan 2y ago
    People love to hate private equity Somewhere between $1m and $102b you become the enemy
    - angoragoats 2y ago
      Yes, sure. It's still not relevant to what the parent comment said.
- kmeisthax 2y ago
  Addl. Context: Matt Mullenweg was invested in WP Engine before Silver Lake bought him out.
- legitster 2y ago
  Automattic is owned by a group of private investors worth trillions of dollars. The "private equity" angle is a rhetorically meaningless point made by an out-of-touch bully trying to put a moralistic spin on his own greed.

daft_pink 2y ago

It’s just whatever for most people using Wordpress is the most practical thing and who cares about wpengine.

oysterville 2y ago
Quite the broad paint brush. Many of us will look at a train going off of the rails and make different travel plans.
noirbot 2y ago
Do you not think the endgame of this is to funnel everyone to Automattic and then raise the rates now that he's exerted a monopoly over Wordpress hosting? Because at this point, I don't see what other exist he has here. This is pure "I own all of Wordpress and it's no longer open source and I can charge anything I want" or he's going to be bankrupted by the lawsuits.
- defnotai 2y ago
  I doubt this, there are dozens of hosting options for WP out there. I think he was threatened by WPEngine’s approach as a more popular offering than Wordpress.com and decided to go scorched-earth on them instead of trying compete on the merits of their product. He’s threatening anyone that tries to build bespoke hosting with extra tools like ACF.
- kmeisthax 2y ago
  > This is pure "I own all of Wordpress and it's no longer open source and I can charge anything I want" or he's going to be bankrupted by the lawsuits. Automattic doesn't own WordPress, for two reasons: 1. WordPress is a fork of b2/cafelog, developed by Michel Valdrighi, and that fork was made under GPL terms 2. WordPress does not have a contributor license agreement or other policy that would require licensing or assigning ownership of upstream contributions to Automattic in a way that would allow them to shirk their responsibilities under the GPL They're betting on those bankrupting lawsuits never coming because the plaintiffs can't afford to front them. That's a common risk calculation made by private equity owned companies - of which Automattic is also one[0], they're owned by BlackRock. Automattic does not have a monopoly over WordPress hosting. They bullied several of the major players in the managed WordPress space into paying trademark licensing fees. WP Engine, being exactly the kind of skinflint operation Matt accuses them of, didn't pay up, but they're absolutely going to stick around. The worst thing Matt can do is extract damages and demand a rebrand (since, well, "WP Engine" really does sound like "WordPress Engine"). He can't legally prevent anyone from hosting WordPress. [0] Yes, every accusation really is a confession.

hi_hi 2y ago

Legalities aside, isn't this the end game for most profit driven companies? Isn't Matt just doing his job here, trying to drive an increase in revenue? I'm not saying I like it, but, ethics aside (and lets not play dumb here, when do ethics drive business, unless it affects profit), I'm struggling to understand all the outrage over his actions?

tliltocatl 2y ago
Not behaving in such a way that will cause people to avoid you in the future isn't about ethics. It's about reputation.
- hi_hi 2y ago
  Don't ethics and reputation go hand in hand?
noirbot 2y ago
But the legalities are the important part of this. You may as well say "Legalities aside, robbing your competitors at gunpoint is a good idea, if unethical". He's essentially setting up a system where if you ever make too much money off of his project, he's very willing to extort you and do plenty of unethical and likely illegal things to you. That's extremely important to the considerations of companies who may be interested in going into business with Wordpress.
- pessimizer 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - axelthegerman 2y ago
    I have no clue what you're trying to say or add to the parent comment.
  - noirbot 2y ago
    Sure, but saying "isn't this just what any capitalist would do" necessarily demands a discussion of the legalities. Trying to ignore if it's legal or not in a discussion of if it's a normal end game for all companies is absurd. If it was legal to murder your business rivals, then sure, it would likely be fairly normal to do so, but it's not, so what's the point of mentioning it? The outrage over his actions is specifically because it's likely not legal or ethical. Compare to the stuff Tim Sweeney is doing in his fight with Apple - he's done a lot of stuff that I would say is decidedly unethical, but understandable. It's also things where he's willing to pay the costs of doing it. Matt seems to fully believe this is legal, ethical, and completely justified and deserves to be lauded.

dotancohen 2y ago

The Secure Custom Fields extension page [1] states this: > Features > - Millions of Users And also states this in the sidebar: > Active installations: Fewer than 10 That seems to support the accusations that this code is simply the nulled version of ACF's paid extension. [1] https://wordpress.org/plugins/secure-custom-fields/ https://wordpress.org/plugins/secure-custom-fields/

throwaway888abc 2y ago

Isn't this theft ?

kmeisthax 2y ago
Morally, kind of. Legally, even taking the whole "copyright infringement equals theft" attitude at face value, it's not, because WordPress is GPL and GPL explicitly forbids adding new restrictive terms to the license, and also forbids combining it with more restrictively licensed code. In fact, in the past, Automattic did to Envato what they did to WP Engine specifically because Envato had taken the position that nulled plugins are infringing. Of course, Automattic is now suing Festingervault for hosting nulled plugins, because Matt Mullenweg doesn't have principles, he has emotions.
- beeboobaa6 2y ago
  It's a plugin, not a modification of WordPress. Wordpresses license is irrelevant.
  - viraptor 2y ago
    Plugins as code that is integrated with WP are still required to be GPL-compatible. Unless you want to connect to your plugin through some layer of networking and a GPL licensed proxy, your plugins need to be open as well. Specifically running something as basic as register_activation_hook() means you're linking with WP-provided code.
  - jazzyjackson 2y ago
    Whether a plugin is standalone or a combined program (and therefore a derivation) is apparently a matter of debate. Sounds like if you so much as use a data structure defined by WordPress, then by distributing your software you're really distributing a modified version of WordPress. [My read of 0] This is intuitive enough for me, if you can't use my plugin without WordPress, then really what I'm shipping is WordPress + my changes. However, some plugins are distributed with a "split license", the php that integrated with WordPress is GPLd, but JavaScript, css, other assets are under a different license. [1] I don't think this has been tested in court one way or another. Matt of course considers this heresy [2] [0] https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.en.html#GPLPlugins https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.en.html#GPLPlugins [1] https://www.contentpowered.com/blog/wordpress-plugins-free-gpl/ https://www.contentpowered.com/blog/wordpress-plugins-free-g... [2] https://ma.tt/2015/07/licenses-going-dutch/?utm_source=perplexity https://ma.tt/2015/07/licenses-going-dutch/?utm_source=perpl...

ChrisArchitect 2y ago

Can we just link to the thing: https://wordpress.org/plugins/secure-custom-fields/ https://wordpress.org/plugins/secure-custom-fields/

DamnInteresting 2y ago

I have a Wordpress site I've been operating since 2005. In recent days I've seen notifications that a Wordpress core update is available, and I find myself very reluctant to install it. I no longer trust this organization. But I also don't want to fall behind on security updates. What an unnecessary mess.