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What's striking to me is that the parents sued. RNH passed off AI-generated text as their own when they knew how to cite AI generated works and were versed in a

What's striking to me is that the parents sued. RNH passed off AI-generated text as their own when they knew how to cite AI generated works and were versed in academic integrity. It wouldn't occur to me to sue the school if this was my kid.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> What's striking to me is that the parents sued And the kid was even offered a redo! On the other hand, the school caved on National Honor Society after the parents filed. So maybe the best move would have been (tactically, not as a parent) to show the school the draft complaint but never file it.
rahimnathwani 2y ago
They're not optimizing for the kid's education. They optimizing for the credentials the kid is able to get. Filing the lawsuit is an asymmetric bet: - win, and increase college admissions odds - lose, and be no worse off that without the suit
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > lose, and be no worse off that without the suit This kid should change his name, given his initials, high school and parents’ names are public record next to a four brain cell cheating attempt.
  - rahimnathwani 2y ago
    Do you think college admissions officers follow the news and use what they learn to maintain a naughty list? Perhaps a business idea?
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      > Do you think college admissions officers follow the news and use what they learn to maintain a naughty list? College admissions, no. College students and colleagues and employers, being able to use a search engine, absolutely.
      - rahimnathwani 2y ago
        If you search the student's name on Google, you probably won't find this lawsuit.
        Retric 2y ago
        Admissions know his name and the name of the school, which helps find specific students. It’s easy to miss, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it comes up as “Hingham High School Harris” brings up the relevant info. Further, his parents suing may be a larger issue for a college than his behavior.
        hackernewds 2y ago
        school recommendations
    - csa 2y ago
      Unless he has someone who is very sympathetic to his cause, the teacher/counselor recommendation will wreck him. This guy needs to go to a JuCo that feeds into a decent state school — he’s screwed for competitive schools.
    - exe34 2y ago
      I'm guessing at some point there will be LLMs trawling through news items to put together profiles for people, and as the cost comes down, it won't just be available to three letter agencies and ad platforms, but schools and employers will start to use them like credit scores.
  - iterateoften 2y ago
    Nope. I just replied above with a similar story when I was in school. My classmate got expelled for cheating and sued the school. tv segment, articles about him, etc. Zero effect on his college outcomes. Got into really good schools.
  - hackernewds 2y ago
    understand though the kid is bearing the implications for the parent's decision. > win and increase college admissions odds + also gain funds for the parents
- jsheard 2y ago
  > lose, and be no worse off that without the suit If I were in college admissions then I'd probably think twice about admitting the candidate with a widely reported history of trying to sue their school on frivolous grounds when things don't go their way.
- swells34 2y ago
  It does strike me that the purpose in attending college is the credential you get; education is a far second.
  - rahimnathwani 2y ago
    So what would you do in the parents' shoes?
    - hackernewds 2y ago
      teach my kids some good ethics and taking responsibility for their actions, instead of jeopardizing the chances of college with the prospects of money
  - erikerikson 2y ago
    It strikes me that this is a foolish take to adopt. I saw lots of students acting a bit like this but I was grateful that I could dedicate myself primarily to my schooling and took as much advantage as I could to learn as much as I could. The credential gets used as a heuristic for the learning you do but if you show up and don't have and knowledge, then everything is harder and your labor more fruitless. I know some people don't care and that there are degenerate workplaces but you'll still be left with having been a lot less useful in your life than you were capable of being.
- usefulcat 2y ago
  > - win, and increase college admissions odds Will it, though? Like if the college happens to know about this incident?
- hackernewds 2y ago
  > - win, and increase college admissions odds wouldn't this decrease? I wouldn't want to admit a litigious cheating student - whether won or lost. this was a pure money play by the parents
  - rahimnathwani 2y ago
    Do you think colleges thoroughly check the background of each applicant, such that they would discover this?
rahimnathwani 2y ago
Here are some of the case documents: https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69190839/harris-v-adams/ https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69190839/harris-v-adams...
iterateoften 2y ago
Almost zero downside. I knew a student who plagiarized 3x so they got kicked out. His parents sued. It was even on the tv news because they were asking for hundreds of thousands in compensation. He lost and the school kept him expelled. I was expecting the bad press coverage to hurt his college chances since there were several articles online about him getting kicked out for cheating and then suing. Nope! Dude got into a really good school. He even ended up texting asking me for past essays I wrote to turn in as his own to his college classes. And the kicker was he then transferred to one of the prestigious military academies that supposedly upholds honor and integrity. So. There is almost zero downside for suing even if it gets you tons of negative publicity.
- brandall10 2y ago
  I don't think we can claim zero downside from one anecdote. There are always outliers that can occur from extenuating circumstances. - The family potentially has the financial resources or possibly connections to 'make things happen'. - Perhaps the student is especially charismatic and was able to somehow right the situation. Some people have that con-artist mindset where they're able to cheat/commit fraud through their life with seemingly minimal consequences. - Perhaps they just got lucky and the administration didn't do their due diligence.
  - michaelt 2y ago
    > Perhaps they just got lucky and the administration didn't do their due diligence. Are universities supposed to google every applicant? I mean I haven't been in academia for a decade, but back when I was I certainly never browsed a 17-year-old girl's instagram before making an admission decision.
    - brandall10 2y ago
      Not every applicant, but the ones in the accepted pool, it strikes me as odd there isn't some basic amount of vetting. Instagram? No (although, wouldn't be surprised)... but doing a gut check with the school admin and looking at public records? Sure.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago

> What's striking to me is that the parents sued And the kid was even offered a redo! On the other hand, the school caved on National Honor Society after the parents filed. So maybe the best move would have been (tactically, not as a parent) to show the school the draft complaint but never file it.

rahimnathwani 2y ago

They're not optimizing for the kid's education. They optimizing for the credentials the kid is able to get. Filing the lawsuit is an asymmetric bet: - win, and increase college admissions odds - lose, and be no worse off that without the suit

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> lose, and be no worse off that without the suit This kid should change his name, given his initials, high school and parents’ names are public record next to a four brain cell cheating attempt.
- rahimnathwani 2y ago
  Do you think college admissions officers follow the news and use what they learn to maintain a naughty list? Perhaps a business idea?
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > Do you think college admissions officers follow the news and use what they learn to maintain a naughty list? College admissions, no. College students and colleagues and employers, being able to use a search engine, absolutely.
    - rahimnathwani 2y ago
      If you search the student's name on Google, you probably won't find this lawsuit.
      - Retric 2y ago
        Admissions know his name and the name of the school, which helps find specific students. It’s easy to miss, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it comes up as “Hingham High School Harris” brings up the relevant info. Further, his parents suing may be a larger issue for a college than his behavior.
      - hackernewds 2y ago
        school recommendations
  - csa 2y ago
    Unless he has someone who is very sympathetic to his cause, the teacher/counselor recommendation will wreck him. This guy needs to go to a JuCo that feeds into a decent state school — he’s screwed for competitive schools.
  - exe34 2y ago
    I'm guessing at some point there will be LLMs trawling through news items to put together profiles for people, and as the cost comes down, it won't just be available to three letter agencies and ad platforms, but schools and employers will start to use them like credit scores.
- iterateoften 2y ago
  Nope. I just replied above with a similar story when I was in school. My classmate got expelled for cheating and sued the school. tv segment, articles about him, etc. Zero effect on his college outcomes. Got into really good schools.
- hackernewds 2y ago
  understand though the kid is bearing the implications for the parent's decision. > win and increase college admissions odds + also gain funds for the parents
jsheard 2y ago
> lose, and be no worse off that without the suit If I were in college admissions then I'd probably think twice about admitting the candidate with a widely reported history of trying to sue their school on frivolous grounds when things don't go their way.
swells34 2y ago
It does strike me that the purpose in attending college is the credential you get; education is a far second.
- rahimnathwani 2y ago
  So what would you do in the parents' shoes?
  - hackernewds 2y ago
    teach my kids some good ethics and taking responsibility for their actions, instead of jeopardizing the chances of college with the prospects of money
- erikerikson 2y ago
  It strikes me that this is a foolish take to adopt. I saw lots of students acting a bit like this but I was grateful that I could dedicate myself primarily to my schooling and took as much advantage as I could to learn as much as I could. The credential gets used as a heuristic for the learning you do but if you show up and don't have and knowledge, then everything is harder and your labor more fruitless. I know some people don't care and that there are degenerate workplaces but you'll still be left with having been a lot less useful in your life than you were capable of being.
usefulcat 2y ago
> - win, and increase college admissions odds Will it, though? Like if the college happens to know about this incident?
hackernewds 2y ago
> - win, and increase college admissions odds wouldn't this decrease? I wouldn't want to admit a litigious cheating student - whether won or lost. this was a pure money play by the parents
- rahimnathwani 2y ago
  Do you think colleges thoroughly check the background of each applicant, such that they would discover this?

rahimnathwani 2y ago

Here are some of the case documents: https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69190839/harris-v-adams/ https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69190839/harris-v-adams...

iterateoften 2y ago

Almost zero downside. I knew a student who plagiarized 3x so they got kicked out. His parents sued. It was even on the tv news because they were asking for hundreds of thousands in compensation. He lost and the school kept him expelled. I was expecting the bad press coverage to hurt his college chances since there were several articles online about him getting kicked out for cheating and then suing. Nope! Dude got into a really good school. He even ended up texting asking me for past essays I wrote to turn in as his own to his college classes. And the kicker was he then transferred to one of the prestigious military academies that supposedly upholds honor and integrity. So. There is almost zero downside for suing even if it gets you tons of negative publicity.

brandall10 2y ago
I don't think we can claim zero downside from one anecdote. There are always outliers that can occur from extenuating circumstances. - The family potentially has the financial resources or possibly connections to 'make things happen'. - Perhaps the student is especially charismatic and was able to somehow right the situation. Some people have that con-artist mindset where they're able to cheat/commit fraud through their life with seemingly minimal consequences. - Perhaps they just got lucky and the administration didn't do their due diligence.
- michaelt 2y ago
  > Perhaps they just got lucky and the administration didn't do their due diligence. Are universities supposed to google every applicant? I mean I haven't been in academia for a decade, but back when I was I certainly never browsed a 17-year-old girl's instagram before making an admission decision.
  - brandall10 2y ago
    Not every applicant, but the ones in the accepted pool, it strikes me as odd there isn't some basic amount of vetting. Instagram? No (although, wouldn't be surprised)... but doing a gut check with the school admin and looking at public records? Sure.