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I resisted RTO as much as anyone but eventually I took a job that required me to be in office 3 days a week because, well, didn’t have much of a choice. I have
by spaceywilly 2y ago
I resisted RTO as much as anyone but eventually I took a job that required me to be in office 3 days a week because, well, didn’t have much of a choice.
I have to say being in the office has been better than I expected. I recently got together with a group of former coworkers, who I worked with for many years at a startup, and have kept in touch all these years later. We noted that this kind of friendship definitely would not have happened if we were working remote.
My only thing is, I would rather have the flexibility to choose where I work, even if only at the team level. It gets cold where I live in winter, I would love to be able to go stay someplace warm during those months, and come to the office when I want to be there.
I feel like for me, this debate isn’t really about working in the office vs working from home, it’s about control. Companies have realized that they gave over too much soft power to employees during the pandemic, so they are now working together to claw it back. They could care less where we work, as long as they are the ones in control.
- Loughla 2y agoI just turned down a job that I would've been amazing at, because they're in person 3 days a week. They lost literally tens of millions in grant opportunities that I have written and the experience I bring, because they wouldn't go remote 3 days instead of just 2. I understand wanting some time in person, absolutely. I hate it, but it does make certain processes much easier. But to not negotiate at all, even when the candidate is perfect for the job and happy with everything else? Ridiculous.
- SV_BubbleTime 2y agoI’m sure the person that took that job is grateful.
- Loughla 2y agoIt's still open. So instead of filling it with a massively qualified candidate, they chose pain.
- A4ET8a8uTh0 2y agoI suppose the bet from executives is: recession/influx of former government employees will allow for relatively easy replacement of candidates. I am not sure which consideration is more cynical and/or misguided.
- jovial_cavalier 2y ago[flagged]
- dang 2y agoNo personal attacks please.
- jovial_cavalier 2y agoNot a personal attack. Merely observing that he's coming off as someone I would not want to work with. This answers his tacit question of why they wouldn't accept his deal.
- dang 2y agoI gather that you didn't intend it as a personal attack, but we have to moderate by effects, not intent. By that standard, "how much of a pain in the ass you seem to be" is squarely in the personal attack category. Not a borderline call!
- enjeyw 2y agoWe’re on HN; regardless of the validity of your point, there’s less inflammatory ways to word it.
- Spivak 2y agoTurning down a job because your potential employer values arbitrary control of their employees over the actual value they created and being frustrated at the silliness of it is so normal. If this is "pain in the ass" behavior I can't imagine how milquetoast and ChatGPT professionalism your company Slack must be.
- 2024user 2y agoHow did you get to the point of turning it down before finding out about the in person days?
- dakiol 2y agoAsking whether the job requires in person presence is usually among the first questions to ask in an interview (e.g., the screening part)
- PeeMcGee 2y agoI've noticed companies that recruit on LinkedIn marking roles as remote, then at the very bottom of the long job description it mentions that it is in fact not remote. I could see someone making it through the initial calls without it coming up. I'd go so far as to say some companies may use it as a backhanded tactic.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- Loughla 2y agoI asked about remote and was told the company was up to 4 days a week remote. Apparently I should've asked specifically about the role? Even though we were already talking about that role?
- senko 2y ago> they're in person 3 days a week. > I asked about remote and was told the company was up to 4 days a week remote. Wait, do they work 7 days a week? If that's their attitude (and I've seen companies where it is), that's a huge red flag.
- Loughla 2y agoNo, I worded that weird. They said they were remote 4 out of 5 days. But the specific department is only remote 2 of the 5 days for that position.
- seadan83 2y agoI would tend to agree RTO is primarily about middle managers and control Though, I think the following could suffer from post-hoc rationalization fallacy: > We noted that this kind of friendship definitely would not have happened if we were working remote.
- steveBK123 2y agoYes, I am great work friends with some of my former colleagues from foreign offices that I rarely saw in person. Similarly have good friends on my current fully remote team. I also have good friends from the fully in office era. Turns out it's more on you as a person to figure out friendship than arbitrary spatial collocation.
- vlovich123 2y agoIs it? The social ties that get built are stronger with in person interactions for me too. It’s not totally a wild hypothesis.
- robocat 2y agoDepending on your home, it is often easy to create strong social ties with your neighbours or within your neighbourhood. Especially if you have kids. Then the anecdote would be different. Definitely post-hoc since there's also plenty of workplaces you never end up with friends from. I am reasonably outgoing and have kept only a handful of friends from various past jobs. Mostly one group is still mostly friends (but we co-founded together so perhaps an unusual group).
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- seadan83 2y ago> It’s not totally a wild hypothesis. No, it's not, I agree. Though, plausible and intuitive do not equate to true and supported by evidence. It is the difference of human knowledge pre-1700s vs post, when science came along and basically said, "yeah, you think that, but how do you know that?" Post-hoc rationalization is quite powerful stuff. That something wound up happening, does not make it a generally true thing. Other factors can be at play.
- bitwize 2y agoI have the opposite problem as you: I've done tech all my life but live in a place where there are few tech opportunities, and it's a bit late in my life to switch to being a longshoreman. So I kind of have to find remote opportunities, even as it becomes more difficult to do so.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]