7 ms·

How an iPad mini Could Define The Small Tablet Market

23 points by iProject 14y ago

jblock 14y ago
I don't want to make assumptions without seeing some data on this, but do people really think that the 10" iPad is too big? I can understand a fiscal reason to make smaller iPads, but I struggle to see any vast ergonomic benefits to a slightly smaller device.
- bradmccarty 14y ago
  My only (and I stress ONLY) argument for a smaller tablet is for reading. Back when the original Galaxy Tab launched, I was hugely impressed by the comfort level of reading on the device. The iPad, even for my big hands, feels unwieldy when it comes to trying to read books on it.
- spaghetti 14y ago
  The only activity I can think of that benefits from a smaller size is typing. I have large hands and typing while holding my iPad in either orientation is cumbersome. Even if typing is easier I don't think I'd purchase a smaller Apple tablet unless it fits in my jacket or pants pocket like an iPhone. My ideal mobile phone/tablet is the largest iPhone that doesn't require another carrying bag. To keep things easy for developers the pixel dimensions would be the same as an existing device. The pixel density could vary with the smaller screen size.
- achompas 14y ago
  Awesome--you have two wildly different opinions responding to you. I agree with both: the iPad weighs too much for long-term reading, and it's too clumsy for typing. A 8" iPad would hit the right mix of portability and comfort.
- jsz0 14y ago
  The benefit is mostly to reach a bigger market without cannibalizing the existing market too much. It would be awkward to sell a cheap 10" tablet that is really 'good enough' to most people along side an expensive 10" tablet. How do you explain the differences and justify paying 30-50% more? The only reason they can get away with selling the same sizes of iPhones is due to carrier subsidies. They can make money on the low end devices. If a consumer was walking into a store to buy a 3GS off contract they would likely not pay more than $200 for it. Apple is getting more like $350-$400 from the carriers for a 3GS.
  - bradmccarty 14y ago
    Great point here. I think that the Mini (if it happens, if that's the name, etc) will be another gateway drug just like the iPod touch. I remember Steve smiling kinda smugly about people who wanted the OS and the apps but didn't want the phone. The touch was how Apple got them in the door. Now translate that to a tablet. For $200 you can get a device that has, inarguably, the best apps marketplace, at its disposal. Android tablets will have an especially difficult time keeping up with that, except for the ones that are purchased by people who simply don't like Apple and its ecosystem.
- r00fus 14y ago
  Not too big, but too heavy for casual reading in bed for long hours. 10" tablets are really the most awesome you can get if you're looking at spec docs or pdfs in a non-desk situation.
shpoonj 14y ago
What evidence is there that Apple intends to make a slightly smaller non retina iPad? This sounds ridiculous...
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- mechanical_fish 14y ago
  Rumors from inside the supply chain, as reported in the Wall Street Journal: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304141204577506471913819412.html?mod=googlenews_wsj http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405270230414120457750... and Bloomberg: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-07-03/here-comes-nexus-7-nightmare-the-ipad-mini.html http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-07-03/here-comes-nexus-7-... Not sourced to named people, of course.
nhangen 14y ago
As a developer, the thought of supporting yet another resolution/form factor scares the hell out of me. I rarely use my Kindle Fire because I feel it's too small, and can't imagine finding a need for a 7" iPad. That's what my iPhone is for.
- pvidler 14y ago
  The rumoured iPad mini is supposed to have them same 1024x768 resolution as the iPad 1 & 2. Apparently, if you stuck to Apple's developer guidelines and used the same 44x44 point minimum size for both iPhone and iPad, then any touch controls on the new device will be the same size as they would be on the iPhone. So no effort required for developers. There was an article about it on here the other day, but now it's probably lost in all the other rumours.
  - bobthedino 14y ago
    This might be the article in question: http://castirony.com/post/26466421254/the-case-for-a-7-8-ipad http://castirony.com/post/26466421254/the-case-for-a-7-8-ipa...
    - pvidler 14y ago
      Yep that's the one, thanks!
  - nhangen 14y ago
    Not necessarily. If they increase DPI to reach that resolution, I'd have to switch custom graphics to UIKit controls, or create them for the 7" form factor. Starting to look like image.png, image@2x.png, image-ipad.png, image-ipad@1.5x.png, image-ipad@2x.png
    - pvidler 14y ago
      No, as long as you followed the UI guidelines the mini could just use your image-ipad.png -- the 44 point minimum will be smaller than on the big iPad, but it's the same physical size as on the iPhone and so still usable: http://castirony.com/post/26466421254/the-case-for-a-7-8-ipad http://castirony.com/post/26466421254/the-case-for-a-7-8-ipa... The only issue is if you have UI elements that must be an exact physical size (some sort of measurement app with onscreen ruler). Not a very common situation, as far as I'm aware.
CamperBob2 14y ago
Few people want a smaller iPad. Many people, however, want a larger iPhone. I'd be surprised if Apple doesn't get that.
- jaems33 14y ago
  Disagree. The HN discussion on the Nexus had many users coming out of the woodwork discussing how they wanted to buy one, touting the virtues of the size. In SV, I also know of other techies who regularly use a laptop but rarely use their iPad (or choose not to buy one). The iPad is slightly too big to carry comfortably in bed or on a couch to read while the iPhone is too small. And since I already have a 13' Macbook (soon to be Air), there isn't much that a 10' iPad has over it with regards to portability and function. I wouldn't want a bigger iPhone (even though I know it's going to happen) because it already seems bigger than I'd like for a pocket phone.
  - CamperBob2 14y ago
    I don't think the "too big for use in bed" argument carries much water, but I will say that one reason why I might buy a smaller iPad would be for use in a semi-permanent car installation. The iPad is too big for that job, but a 7" tablet would be in line with some of the larger screens in existing high-end autosound systems. Right now I use an iPhone for navigation and music in the car, which is why I want a (much) bigger one. But I'll admit that it's possible that what I really want is a smaller iPad, not a bigger phone. Of course, I'm just making a choice between two different kludges in order to work around the sad, obvious truth: that no Apple-like company is apparently going to save the autosound industry -- a confederacy of dunces if there ever was one -- from its own incompetence.
zalew 14y ago
2010: "The reason we [won't] make a 7-inch tablet isn't because we don't want to hit that price point, it's because we think the screen is too small to express the software [..]It is meaningless, unless your tablet also includes sandpaper, so that the user can sand down their fingers to around one quarter of the present size. Apple's done extensive user-testing [..] This is one of the key reasons we think the 10-inch screen size is the minimum size required to create great tablet apps." 2012: Nexus 7 is introduced by Google later: Apple "defines" the market by releasing a smaller iPad
- bradmccarty 14y ago
  Since when is this new for Apple? The company (and don't get me wrong, I'm a fan) has an amazing ability to take older, already-existing technology and turn it into a successful product or feature. If you look at iOS for the past couple of versions, many of the things that people were excited about were features that Android already had. Whether you believe Apple has done them better or not is a matter of opinion. Gruber has a pretty good summary of how this will likely go down. The HN thread is here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4222072 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4222072
- jsz0 14y ago
  Classic misdirection. Apple wanted to enjoy big margins from $500+ iPads as long as possible. There was no reason for them to release a cheaper device until someone forced their hand. They still have all the momentum to make the move gracefully. This was exactly the move they were not able to make with the iPhone when it was facing increased competition. They were locked into one US carrier and had limited international reach. So they simply couldn't respond in the same way. With the 7" iPad they can follow the iPod model directly.
- ChuckMcM 14y ago
  Apple can both have believed everything they said and be creating a 7" tablet. Prior to the iPad the conventional wisdom was 'there was no tablet market.' As with most things the software execution is key. That said, I'd love a 7" tablet that I could open up into a 12" tablet with a seamless center. Of course the 'real' market is for a set of glasses that project an arbitrary high pixel count screen relative to you (and stable) head space (where your head is 0,0,0 but your view is independent.) Then you can look at a white area on the wall, select to drop a display there, look at another area, drop another display, etc. Then do some sort of focus follows eyeball thing. Put up a DVD on the wall, put your email into a display on the dinner table next to you, or the seat back in front of you. That won't be until 2015 though at this rate (Google Glass not withstanding).
josephcooney 14y ago
I have a 7" android tablet (a really old one) and it makes a great device for reading (it has a lot of other problems, but reading is good). I think the Nexus 7 looks like a great device, and seems to already be defining the small tablet market, unlike a hypothetical apple device. This just reeks of fanboi-ism, unwilling to concede that google might have dome something good that apple doesn't already have product in that category for.
- jsz0 14y ago
  I think it's an honest assessment about the momentum the iPad has in the market. It's a lot like the iPod. Was it Sansa (Sandisk?) that had very good small digital players about a year before the iPod Nano? Apple flipped the switch on the Nano, charged more, and steam rolled them because everyone still wanted an iPod. The only big question to me is if Apple will step far enough into the 'value' market with pricing. $299 leaves the door open. $249 slams the door.
  - r00fus 14y ago
    Sansa isn't Google. Apple, if they were to enter the 7-8" market, would have real competition on it's hands (Kindle Fire 2, etc) What is more likely is that the new iPad will find a way to differentiate itself both from it's bigger brother and the rest of the pack - something that Apple can market day and night. And yes, there will be value pricing, but probably $249 at the lowest. Dual-strategy: upsell to bigger iPad, while getting down and dirty in the 7" category so that any successes for Google/Amazon aren't cheap. One slam dunk would probably be 3G for your iPad mini, which neither of the others offer currently.
incision 14y ago
This article is smug to the point that it's unreadable.
stewie2 14y ago
I wonder what resolution we can have on this 7inch tablet?

23 points by iProject 14y ago

I don't want to make assumptions without seeing some data on this, but do people really think that the 10" iPad is too big? I can understand a fiscal reason to make smaller iPads, but I struggle to see any vast ergonomic benefits to a slightly smaller device.

bradmccarty 14y ago
My only (and I stress ONLY) argument for a smaller tablet is for reading. Back when the original Galaxy Tab launched, I was hugely impressed by the comfort level of reading on the device. The iPad, even for my big hands, feels unwieldy when it comes to trying to read books on it.
spaghetti 14y ago
The only activity I can think of that benefits from a smaller size is typing. I have large hands and typing while holding my iPad in either orientation is cumbersome. Even if typing is easier I don't think I'd purchase a smaller Apple tablet unless it fits in my jacket or pants pocket like an iPhone. My ideal mobile phone/tablet is the largest iPhone that doesn't require another carrying bag. To keep things easy for developers the pixel dimensions would be the same as an existing device. The pixel density could vary with the smaller screen size.
achompas 14y ago
Awesome--you have two wildly different opinions responding to you. I agree with both: the iPad weighs too much for long-term reading, and it's too clumsy for typing. A 8" iPad would hit the right mix of portability and comfort.
jsz0 14y ago
The benefit is mostly to reach a bigger market without cannibalizing the existing market too much. It would be awkward to sell a cheap 10" tablet that is really 'good enough' to most people along side an expensive 10" tablet. How do you explain the differences and justify paying 30-50% more? The only reason they can get away with selling the same sizes of iPhones is due to carrier subsidies. They can make money on the low end devices. If a consumer was walking into a store to buy a 3GS off contract they would likely not pay more than $200 for it. Apple is getting more like $350-$400 from the carriers for a 3GS.
- bradmccarty 14y ago
  Great point here. I think that the Mini (if it happens, if that's the name, etc) will be another gateway drug just like the iPod touch. I remember Steve smiling kinda smugly about people who wanted the OS and the apps but didn't want the phone. The touch was how Apple got them in the door. Now translate that to a tablet. For $200 you can get a device that has, inarguably, the best apps marketplace, at its disposal. Android tablets will have an especially difficult time keeping up with that, except for the ones that are purchased by people who simply don't like Apple and its ecosystem.
r00fus 14y ago
Not too big, but too heavy for casual reading in bed for long hours. 10" tablets are really the most awesome you can get if you're looking at spec docs or pdfs in a non-desk situation.

shpoonj 14y ago

What evidence is there that Apple intends to make a slightly smaller non retina iPad? This sounds ridiculous...

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
mechanical_fish 14y ago
Rumors from inside the supply chain, as reported in the Wall Street Journal: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304141204577506471913819412.html?mod=googlenews_wsj http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405270230414120457750... and Bloomberg: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-07-03/here-comes-nexus-7-nightmare-the-ipad-mini.html http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-07-03/here-comes-nexus-7-... Not sourced to named people, of course.

nhangen 14y ago

As a developer, the thought of supporting yet another resolution/form factor scares the hell out of me. I rarely use my Kindle Fire because I feel it's too small, and can't imagine finding a need for a 7" iPad. That's what my iPhone is for.

pvidler 14y ago
The rumoured iPad mini is supposed to have them same 1024x768 resolution as the iPad 1 & 2. Apparently, if you stuck to Apple's developer guidelines and used the same 44x44 point minimum size for both iPhone and iPad, then any touch controls on the new device will be the same size as they would be on the iPhone. So no effort required for developers. There was an article about it on here the other day, but now it's probably lost in all the other rumours.
- bobthedino 14y ago
  This might be the article in question: http://castirony.com/post/26466421254/the-case-for-a-7-8-ipad http://castirony.com/post/26466421254/the-case-for-a-7-8-ipa...
  - pvidler 14y ago
    Yep that's the one, thanks!
- nhangen 14y ago
  Not necessarily. If they increase DPI to reach that resolution, I'd have to switch custom graphics to UIKit controls, or create them for the 7" form factor. Starting to look like image.png, image@2x.png, image-ipad.png, image-ipad@1.5x.png, image-ipad@2x.png
  - pvidler 14y ago
    No, as long as you followed the UI guidelines the mini could just use your image-ipad.png -- the 44 point minimum will be smaller than on the big iPad, but it's the same physical size as on the iPhone and so still usable: http://castirony.com/post/26466421254/the-case-for-a-7-8-ipad http://castirony.com/post/26466421254/the-case-for-a-7-8-ipa... The only issue is if you have UI elements that must be an exact physical size (some sort of measurement app with onscreen ruler). Not a very common situation, as far as I'm aware.

CamperBob2 14y ago

Few people want a smaller iPad. Many people, however, want a larger iPhone. I'd be surprised if Apple doesn't get that.

jaems33 14y ago
Disagree. The HN discussion on the Nexus had many users coming out of the woodwork discussing how they wanted to buy one, touting the virtues of the size. In SV, I also know of other techies who regularly use a laptop but rarely use their iPad (or choose not to buy one). The iPad is slightly too big to carry comfortably in bed or on a couch to read while the iPhone is too small. And since I already have a 13' Macbook (soon to be Air), there isn't much that a 10' iPad has over it with regards to portability and function. I wouldn't want a bigger iPhone (even though I know it's going to happen) because it already seems bigger than I'd like for a pocket phone.
- CamperBob2 14y ago
  I don't think the "too big for use in bed" argument carries much water, but I will say that one reason why I might buy a smaller iPad would be for use in a semi-permanent car installation. The iPad is too big for that job, but a 7" tablet would be in line with some of the larger screens in existing high-end autosound systems. Right now I use an iPhone for navigation and music in the car, which is why I want a (much) bigger one. But I'll admit that it's possible that what I really want is a smaller iPad, not a bigger phone. Of course, I'm just making a choice between two different kludges in order to work around the sad, obvious truth: that no Apple-like company is apparently going to save the autosound industry -- a confederacy of dunces if there ever was one -- from its own incompetence.

zalew 14y ago

2010: "The reason we [won't] make a 7-inch tablet isn't because we don't want to hit that price point, it's because we think the screen is too small to express the software [..]It is meaningless, unless your tablet also includes sandpaper, so that the user can sand down their fingers to around one quarter of the present size. Apple's done extensive user-testing [..] This is one of the key reasons we think the 10-inch screen size is the minimum size required to create great tablet apps." 2012: Nexus 7 is introduced by Google later: Apple "defines" the market by releasing a smaller iPad

bradmccarty 14y ago
Since when is this new for Apple? The company (and don't get me wrong, I'm a fan) has an amazing ability to take older, already-existing technology and turn it into a successful product or feature. If you look at iOS for the past couple of versions, many of the things that people were excited about were features that Android already had. Whether you believe Apple has done them better or not is a matter of opinion. Gruber has a pretty good summary of how this will likely go down. The HN thread is here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4222072 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4222072
jsz0 14y ago
Classic misdirection. Apple wanted to enjoy big margins from $500+ iPads as long as possible. There was no reason for them to release a cheaper device until someone forced their hand. They still have all the momentum to make the move gracefully. This was exactly the move they were not able to make with the iPhone when it was facing increased competition. They were locked into one US carrier and had limited international reach. So they simply couldn't respond in the same way. With the 7" iPad they can follow the iPod model directly.
ChuckMcM 14y ago
Apple can both have believed everything they said and be creating a 7" tablet. Prior to the iPad the conventional wisdom was 'there was no tablet market.' As with most things the software execution is key. That said, I'd love a 7" tablet that I could open up into a 12" tablet with a seamless center. Of course the 'real' market is for a set of glasses that project an arbitrary high pixel count screen relative to you (and stable) head space (where your head is 0,0,0 but your view is independent.) Then you can look at a white area on the wall, select to drop a display there, look at another area, drop another display, etc. Then do some sort of focus follows eyeball thing. Put up a DVD on the wall, put your email into a display on the dinner table next to you, or the seat back in front of you. That won't be until 2015 though at this rate (Google Glass not withstanding).

josephcooney 14y ago

I have a 7" android tablet (a really old one) and it makes a great device for reading (it has a lot of other problems, but reading is good). I think the Nexus 7 looks like a great device, and seems to already be defining the small tablet market, unlike a hypothetical apple device. This just reeks of fanboi-ism, unwilling to concede that google might have dome something good that apple doesn't already have product in that category for.

jsz0 14y ago
I think it's an honest assessment about the momentum the iPad has in the market. It's a lot like the iPod. Was it Sansa (Sandisk?) that had very good small digital players about a year before the iPod Nano? Apple flipped the switch on the Nano, charged more, and steam rolled them because everyone still wanted an iPod. The only big question to me is if Apple will step far enough into the 'value' market with pricing. $299 leaves the door open. $249 slams the door.
- r00fus 14y ago
  Sansa isn't Google. Apple, if they were to enter the 7-8" market, would have real competition on it's hands (Kindle Fire 2, etc) What is more likely is that the new iPad will find a way to differentiate itself both from it's bigger brother and the rest of the pack - something that Apple can market day and night. And yes, there will be value pricing, but probably $249 at the lowest. Dual-strategy: upsell to bigger iPad, while getting down and dirty in the 7" category so that any successes for Google/Amazon aren't cheap. One slam dunk would probably be 3G for your iPad mini, which neither of the others offer currently.

incision 14y ago

This article is smug to the point that it's unreadable.

stewie2 14y ago

I wonder what resolution we can have on this 7inch tablet?