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This is just nuclear fearmongering, an important tool in the Russian political arsenal, but that's all it is. And the best proof of that is the fact that we are

This is just nuclear fearmongering, an important tool in the Russian political arsenal, but that's all it is. And the best proof of that is the fact that we are having this conversation right now. The Soviets didn't use nuclear weapons, despite all the Cold War tensions, despite having an ideological grip on society and an actual arsenal to rival the US. The idea that Russians of today are capable of collective suicide, after decades of disillusionment and material decline, is patently ridiculous.

ossobuco 2y ago
It's not "collective suicide" when they feel backed in a corner without alternatives, and that's how they feel whether you think it's legitimate or not. The Soviets didn't use nuclear weapons because they've never been in the situation we're trying to put Russia in now.
- aguaviva 2y ago
  Except they were in a very similar situation not too long ago of course, in a country called Afghanistan. In which their leadership ultimately chose to do the only right and pragmatic thing. Rather than bleed the country's resources out indefinitely over a conflict which (all their bluster at the time notwithstanding) it knew perfectly well to be in no way existential, and, exactly like the current conflict -- entirely symbolic.
  - ossobuco 2y ago
    As I said, > and that's how they feel whether you think it's legitimate or not
    - aguaviva 2y ago
      More like how the aggressor says it "feels". Whether you accept its statements at face value is up to you.
      - ossobuco 2y ago
        I accept it the same way I accept when a dog feels threatened by me, even if I know I'm just trying to pet it. I'm not going to risk a bite by forcing my hand; I'll make it feel safe first. That will only work if I have good intentions, obviously.
        aguaviva 2y ago
        Except it's not the "dog" that you're interacting with. But rather, the dog's owner. You know, the man behind the curtain.

ossobuco 2y ago

It's not "collective suicide" when they feel backed in a corner without alternatives, and that's how they feel whether you think it's legitimate or not. The Soviets didn't use nuclear weapons because they've never been in the situation we're trying to put Russia in now.

aguaviva 2y ago
Except they were in a very similar situation not too long ago of course, in a country called Afghanistan. In which their leadership ultimately chose to do the only right and pragmatic thing. Rather than bleed the country's resources out indefinitely over a conflict which (all their bluster at the time notwithstanding) it knew perfectly well to be in no way existential, and, exactly like the current conflict -- entirely symbolic.
- ossobuco 2y ago
  As I said, > and that's how they feel whether you think it's legitimate or not
  - aguaviva 2y ago
    More like how the aggressor says it "feels". Whether you accept its statements at face value is up to you.
    - ossobuco 2y ago
      I accept it the same way I accept when a dog feels threatened by me, even if I know I'm just trying to pet it. I'm not going to risk a bite by forcing my hand; I'll make it feel safe first. That will only work if I have good intentions, obviously.
      - aguaviva 2y ago
        Except it's not the "dog" that you're interacting with. But rather, the dog's owner. You know, the man behind the curtain.