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Men can be more easily drawn to the trades for what seems like much easier money. When I was a poor student I had friends working in house building, driving tru

Men can be more easily drawn to the trades for what seems like much easier money. When I was a poor student I had friends working in house building, driving trucks and even 1 working in a foundry. They all had nicer cars and more beer money than me until I graduated.

khuey 2y ago
> They all had nicer cars and more beer money than me until I graduated. It's not exactly surprising that someone working full time has a higher standard of living than a college student. The question is what happens after graduation.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- acdha 2y ago
  Partially: that’s the perfectly rational position but … how many teenagers did you know who carefully planned the game-theoretical optimum for their life? The guy who got a scholarship to MIT is doing that but public policy has to think more about how the 50th percentile person is doing and I think that’s where what you see around you matters more: someone academically driven or who grew up comfortably with professional class parents has the cultural preparation to stick with it but someone who has non-stellar grades, needs to juggle work and school, is thinking regularly about how many years of their parents’ annual income their student debt translates into – that’s who’s likely to give up.
Izikiel43 2y ago
> They all had nicer cars and more beer money than me until I graduated. Well yes, they had jobs. Let's say 10 years after graduation, how are things holding up.
deftosser8501 2y ago
I mean it's not a wrong thing to think. First day of Polytechnic school, one of my instructors asked how many of us had spouses or girlfriends; about half raised their hands. He said very plainly that they should withdraw from the course if they valued their loved one more than their academic performance. Thing was he was being kind. The course load was targeted around 80 to 100 hours a week in year 1 and then eases off to 60 to 70 year 2 after proving you have the mental fortitude to sustain that kind of pace for more than a few weeks. Post secondary is hard. It's supposed to hard. Only 9 out of an intake of 60 graduated. We were staking a lot of money on the line that would disappear if we didn't make it through. Is it really so unreasonable to think that some people would look at that and decide they don't want to make those sacrifices even if means higher pay check afterwards?
- johnnyanmac 2y ago
  I guess it varies by K-12 rigor, but college was mostly easier for me... until the 4th year. that 80 hour workload was my high school, and I had no choice but to balance 5 classes + an elective every year. And ofc I pushed myself more by having an acedemic club and volunteer work. I was always so tired. My mom felt bad for being out of the house a lot, but truthfully I wasn't much different anyway and barely noticed. College, I dropped a lot of that, and my class workload dropped to 3-4 classes a quarter. It was like a huge weight was off my shoulders. less time in classes, more time to myself to choose. classes were harder but I had more time to focus down on my majors instead of being distracted by 3 GE equivalents in high school. It just fit my way of working better. ---- But I think that is part of the point: the standard line of K-12 has been falling while the line for college wants to keep trying to go up. Those determined A/B students will meet that line, but not the people doing the bare minimum to pass. A "C" is not what used to be a "C". I don't know the solution to it, but the current "solution" of grade inflation is not a direction I agree with.

khuey 2y ago

> They all had nicer cars and more beer money than me until I graduated. It's not exactly surprising that someone working full time has a higher standard of living than a college student. The question is what happens after graduation.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
acdha 2y ago
Partially: that’s the perfectly rational position but … how many teenagers did you know who carefully planned the game-theoretical optimum for their life? The guy who got a scholarship to MIT is doing that but public policy has to think more about how the 50th percentile person is doing and I think that’s where what you see around you matters more: someone academically driven or who grew up comfortably with professional class parents has the cultural preparation to stick with it but someone who has non-stellar grades, needs to juggle work and school, is thinking regularly about how many years of their parents’ annual income their student debt translates into – that’s who’s likely to give up.

Izikiel43 2y ago

> They all had nicer cars and more beer money than me until I graduated. Well yes, they had jobs. Let's say 10 years after graduation, how are things holding up.

deftosser8501 2y ago

I mean it's not a wrong thing to think. First day of Polytechnic school, one of my instructors asked how many of us had spouses or girlfriends; about half raised their hands. He said very plainly that they should withdraw from the course if they valued their loved one more than their academic performance. Thing was he was being kind. The course load was targeted around 80 to 100 hours a week in year 1 and then eases off to 60 to 70 year 2 after proving you have the mental fortitude to sustain that kind of pace for more than a few weeks. Post secondary is hard. It's supposed to hard. Only 9 out of an intake of 60 graduated. We were staking a lot of money on the line that would disappear if we didn't make it through. Is it really so unreasonable to think that some people would look at that and decide they don't want to make those sacrifices even if means higher pay check afterwards?

johnnyanmac 2y ago
I guess it varies by K-12 rigor, but college was mostly easier for me... until the 4th year. that 80 hour workload was my high school, and I had no choice but to balance 5 classes + an elective every year. And ofc I pushed myself more by having an acedemic club and volunteer work. I was always so tired. My mom felt bad for being out of the house a lot, but truthfully I wasn't much different anyway and barely noticed. College, I dropped a lot of that, and my class workload dropped to 3-4 classes a quarter. It was like a huge weight was off my shoulders. less time in classes, more time to myself to choose. classes were harder but I had more time to focus down on my majors instead of being distracted by 3 GE equivalents in high school. It just fit my way of working better. ---- But I think that is part of the point: the standard line of K-12 has been falling while the line for college wants to keep trying to go up. Those determined A/B students will meet that line, but not the people doing the bare minimum to pass. A "C" is not what used to be a "C". I don't know the solution to it, but the current "solution" of grade inflation is not a direction I agree with.