3 ms·

I don't think OP was trying to be condescending. Even if they were, they're still right. A lot of modern languages are designed with bad programmers in mind.

ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago
Wasn't trying to be, but it's my experience that people will deliberately assume the very worst intentions, behind whatever I write, so it's a losing proposition, trying to be circumspect. I am, however, pretty against selling crap. If people pay for my work, or even if they don't (most work I do, these days, is free), they have the right to expect that I did good work. I do run into quite a few folks that write crap, know they write crap, but don't care, and expect people to pay top dollar for their crap. If that's a "condescending" attitude, then guilty as charged.
- rty32 2y ago
  To be honest, it's a pattern I see under every PHP thread: (Neutral) PHP news -> PHP bad -> PHP not bad Even if people didn't actually say "PHP bad"
  - ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago
    I use PHP for my backend work. I am not an outstanding PHProgrammer, because, quite frankly, I don't like the language, but I'm good enough to write fairly robust, secure, and performant backends. I just hold my nose, write my backend, then get back to my frontend, as soon as possible.
munk-a 2y ago
One thing I'd like to highlight though is that there were mountains of terrible advice out there around PHP from novices who had figured out a way to make things work - around the time of PHP 5.3 the community ran an ambitious initiative to crawl through sites like Stack Overflow and replace bad answers with correct ones. The community realized how dangerous it was for novices and how much all the bad advice was hurting the reputation of the language and they took decisive action to fix it. Separately, IMO, languages should always be designed with bad programmers in mind - good programmers are going to figure out the right way to do things in any language but bad programmers are going to fire off every foot gun they can find. PHP has made efforts to remove or de-emphasize foot guns and it has evolved into a much safer tool to give someone.

ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago

Wasn't trying to be, but it's my experience that people will deliberately assume the very worst intentions, behind whatever I write, so it's a losing proposition, trying to be circumspect. I am, however, pretty against selling crap. If people pay for my work, or even if they don't (most work I do, these days, is free), they have the right to expect that I did good work. I do run into quite a few folks that write crap, know they write crap, but don't care, and expect people to pay top dollar for their crap. If that's a "condescending" attitude, then guilty as charged.

rty32 2y ago
To be honest, it's a pattern I see under every PHP thread: (Neutral) PHP news -> PHP bad -> PHP not bad Even if people didn't actually say "PHP bad"
- ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago
  I use PHP for my backend work. I am not an outstanding PHProgrammer, because, quite frankly, I don't like the language, but I'm good enough to write fairly robust, secure, and performant backends. I just hold my nose, write my backend, then get back to my frontend, as soon as possible.

munk-a 2y ago

One thing I'd like to highlight though is that there were mountains of terrible advice out there around PHP from novices who had figured out a way to make things work - around the time of PHP 5.3 the community ran an ambitious initiative to crawl through sites like Stack Overflow and replace bad answers with correct ones. The community realized how dangerous it was for novices and how much all the bad advice was hurting the reputation of the language and they took decisive action to fix it. Separately, IMO, languages should always be designed with bad programmers in mind - good programmers are going to figure out the right way to do things in any language but bad programmers are going to fire off every foot gun they can find. PHP has made efforts to remove or de-emphasize foot guns and it has evolved into a much safer tool to give someone.