7 ms·

De facto standardization by snapping up good names early!

by juped 2y ago

echelon 2y ago
Not really. A lot of essential third party Rust crates and projects have "weird" names, eg. "nom", "tokio", etc. You can see that from the list of most downloaded crates [1]. This one just happens to have been owned and maintained by core Rust folks and used in a lot of larger libraries. This is more the exception than the rule. It's a given that you should do due diligence on crates and not just use the first name that matches your use case. There's a lot of crate name squatting and abandonware. Rust crates need namespacing to avoid this and similar problems going forward. [1] https://crates.io/crates?sort=downloads https://crates.io/crates?sort=downloads
- dangsux 2y ago
  [dead]
- codetrotter 2y ago
  A sibling comment talked about “UwU names”. Not sure exactly if they are referring to “tokio” or something else. But if it’s tokio, they might find this informative: > I enjoyed visiting Tokio (Tokyo) the city and I liked the "io" suffix and how it plays w/ Mio as well. I don't know... naming is hard so I didn't spend too much time thinking about it. https://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/d3ld9z/comment/f03lnm8/ https://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/d3ld9z/comment/f03lnm... From the original release announcement of tokio on r/rust on Reddit. And also to the sibling commenter, if tokio is a problematic name to you: Would either of the following names be equally problematic or not? - Chicago. Code name for Windows 95, and also the name of a city in the USA. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Development_of_Windows_95 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Development_of_Windows_95 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago - Oslo. Name of a team working on OpenStack, and also appears in their package names. Oslo is the capital of Norway. https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Oslo https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Oslo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oslo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oslo If yes, why? If no, also why?
  - samatman 2y ago
    [flagged]
  - mardef 2y ago
    Just want to point out that location names are used for codenames because they cannot be trademarked Big tech uses them instead of wasting legal time and money having to clear a new name that's temporary or non-public. Changing the name to Tokio removes this benefit and still leaves it disconnected from its purpose.
    - qingcharles 2y ago
      The name of the city is 東京 -- anything in Latin characters is a rough transliteration. Tokio was the common spelling in European texts until some time last century, and is still used regularly in continental Europe. see also, e.g. Tokio Hotel
      - Dilettante_ 2y ago
        A reference to Tokio Hotel was not on my HN bingo card
        echelon 2y ago
        This is the first time Tokio Hotel has been mentioned on HN in over ten years. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=%22tokio%20hotel%22&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu... That has me thinking of Neutral Milk Hotel. Totally different vibes.
        qingcharles 2y ago
        Thank you for doing the background work. Wild they've never been mentioned before. And this time, not in relation to their music...
      - labster 2y ago
- littlestymaar 2y ago
  > Rust crates need namespacing to avoid this and similar problems going forward. It hasn't been implemented despite crowd demanding it on HN for years because it won't solve the problem (namespace squatting is going to replace name squatting and tada! you're back to square one with an extra step).
  - Macha 2y ago
    I do agree that people will assume xyz/xyz is more authoriative than some-org/xyz, but I think there is benefit to knowing that everything under xyz/* has a single owner. The current approach is to name companion crates like xyz_abc but someone else could come along with xyz_def and it's not immediately obvious that xyz_abc has the same owner as xyz but xyz_def does not.
    - littlestymaar 2y ago
      This is a completely different topic though, and I think there's interest in shipping something like that. That's the main problem with “just add namespace FFS” discussions that come every other week: everyone has its own vision of what namespace should look like and what they are meant for, but nobody has ever taken the time to write an RFC with supporting arguments. In fact, people bring this mostly in ways that are related to name squatting (like right here) even though that's not a problem namespace can solve in the first place. It's magical thinking at its finest.
      - Macha 2y ago
        > nobody has ever taken the time to write an RFC with supporting arguments. https://rust-lang.github.io/rfcs/3243-packages-as-optional-namespaces.html https://rust-lang.github.io/rfcs/3243-packages-as-optional-n... https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/pull/3243 https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/pull/3243
        littlestymaar 2y ago
        Exactly, this isn't about “default namespace”, this is the other feature which I said had support (didn't know the RFC had been merged though, thanks for pointing that out). This isn't the kind of namespace people say they want to prevent squatting.
EasyMark 2y ago
Would “rookie” be the obvious name in that case?

De facto standardization by snapping up good names early!

by juped 2y ago

De facto standardization by snapping up good names early!

Not really. A lot of essential third party Rust crates and projects have "weird" names, eg. "nom", "tokio", etc. You can see that from the list of most downloaded crates [1]. This one just happens to have been owned and maintained by core Rust folks and used in a lot of larger libraries. This is more the exception than the rule. It's a given that you should do due diligence on crates and not just use the first name that matches your use case. There's a lot of crate name squatting and abandonware. Rust crates need namespacing to avoid this and similar problems going forward. [1] https://crates.io/crates?sort=downloads https://crates.io/crates?sort=downloads

dangsux 2y ago
[dead]
codetrotter 2y ago
A sibling comment talked about “UwU names”. Not sure exactly if they are referring to “tokio” or something else. But if it’s tokio, they might find this informative: > I enjoyed visiting Tokio (Tokyo) the city and I liked the "io" suffix and how it plays w/ Mio as well. I don't know... naming is hard so I didn't spend too much time thinking about it. https://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/d3ld9z/comment/f03lnm8/ https://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/d3ld9z/comment/f03lnm... From the original release announcement of tokio on r/rust on Reddit. And also to the sibling commenter, if tokio is a problematic name to you: Would either of the following names be equally problematic or not? - Chicago. Code name for Windows 95, and also the name of a city in the USA. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Development_of_Windows_95 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Development_of_Windows_95 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago - Oslo. Name of a team working on OpenStack, and also appears in their package names. Oslo is the capital of Norway. https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Oslo https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Oslo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oslo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oslo If yes, why? If no, also why?
- samatman 2y ago
  [flagged]
- mardef 2y ago
  Just want to point out that location names are used for codenames because they cannot be trademarked Big tech uses them instead of wasting legal time and money having to clear a new name that's temporary or non-public. Changing the name to Tokio removes this benefit and still leaves it disconnected from its purpose.
  - qingcharles 2y ago
    The name of the city is 東京 -- anything in Latin characters is a rough transliteration. Tokio was the common spelling in European texts until some time last century, and is still used regularly in continental Europe. see also, e.g. Tokio Hotel
    - Dilettante_ 2y ago
      A reference to Tokio Hotel was not on my HN bingo card
      - echelon 2y ago
        This is the first time Tokio Hotel has been mentioned on HN in over ten years. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=%22tokio%20hotel%22&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu... That has me thinking of Neutral Milk Hotel. Totally different vibes.
        qingcharles 2y ago
        Thank you for doing the background work. Wild they've never been mentioned before. And this time, not in relation to their music...
    - labster 2y ago
littlestymaar 2y ago
> Rust crates need namespacing to avoid this and similar problems going forward. It hasn't been implemented despite crowd demanding it on HN for years because it won't solve the problem (namespace squatting is going to replace name squatting and tada! you're back to square one with an extra step).
- Macha 2y ago
  I do agree that people will assume xyz/xyz is more authoriative than some-org/xyz, but I think there is benefit to knowing that everything under xyz/* has a single owner. The current approach is to name companion crates like xyz_abc but someone else could come along with xyz_def and it's not immediately obvious that xyz_abc has the same owner as xyz but xyz_def does not.
  - littlestymaar 2y ago
    This is a completely different topic though, and I think there's interest in shipping something like that. That's the main problem with “just add namespace FFS” discussions that come every other week: everyone has its own vision of what namespace should look like and what they are meant for, but nobody has ever taken the time to write an RFC with supporting arguments. In fact, people bring this mostly in ways that are related to name squatting (like right here) even though that's not a problem namespace can solve in the first place. It's magical thinking at its finest.
    - Macha 2y ago
      > nobody has ever taken the time to write an RFC with supporting arguments. https://rust-lang.github.io/rfcs/3243-packages-as-optional-namespaces.html https://rust-lang.github.io/rfcs/3243-packages-as-optional-n... https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/pull/3243 https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/pull/3243
      - littlestymaar 2y ago
        Exactly, this isn't about “default namespace”, this is the other feature which I said had support (didn't know the RFC had been merged though, thanks for pointing that out). This isn't the kind of namespace people say they want to prevent squatting.

EasyMark 2y ago

Would “rookie” be the obvious name in that case?