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That’s what we would call “the exception that proves the rule”.

Retric 2y ago
Edit: It’s hardly the only or most severe example. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Pueblo_(AGER-2) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Pueblo_(AGER-2) There’s also edge cases. Yeh Changti was trained by the CIA and then shot down flying a U-2 in 1963 and held in China for 19 years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeh_Changti https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeh_Changti
- aphantastic 2y ago
  Listing examples of chinese nationals captured in a time when 85% of Americans today weren’t even alive isn’t proving the point you seem to think it is. The simple fact of the matter is that modern countries simply don’t want to mess with america.
  - Retric 2y ago
    Your question included allies, but if we’re talking US citizens only USS Pueblo (AGER-2) Was a capture of a US military vehicle, torture of its crew, and we did nothing. But how recently are you thinking here? 1994: US apologies and pays reparations to return US soldier shot down by NK. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_border_incidents_involving_North_and_South_Korea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_border_incidents_invol...
    - aphantastic 2y ago
      Sure, going back to the main point North Korea has guns and this helps to hem get their way. And if we restrict ourselves to those countries which are relevant to the main point (ICC member states), they don’t, and don’t. What’s your point? To date all you’ve done is list rule proving exceptions.
      - Retric 2y ago
        That’s no true Scotsman… but anyway as long as you’re giving up the idea that this different recently. Compare France or the UK as ICC member states with NK and your argument is obviously false. They have plenty of nukes to be a major issue. I’ll flip this around, try and find examples that fit your narrative outside of fiction or active wars. IE, situations where civilians are in charge of deciding what our military is doing.
        aphantastic 2y ago
        I still don’t know what your point is. I’ve been consistent since the beginning. UK and France are quite weak indeed, nuclear is a separate plane that is irrelevant in this thread.
        Retric 2y ago
        You asked: > Do we have many examples of cases where countries have held US soldiers or commanders of allied nations captive without repercussion? And clear answer to that such a year yes, with dozens of examples off the top of my head that I was unsure in what context you might assume it was true. > UK and France are quite weak indeed Not in comparison to NK and especially not historic NK they aren’t. Have you ever actually studied foreign events, history, or looked into foreign militaries etc? You have such a distorted viewpoint I just find it baffling. In terms of traditional military NK has 1/3 the UK’s population, vastly worse industry, outdated equipment, minimal ability to move beyond their borders, etc. In a head to head fight they would lose badly.
        aphantastic 2y ago
        > Have you ever actually Every day of my life, actually. It’s clear you don’t, and I don’t particularly care. Good day.
        Retric 2y ago
        > It’s clear you don’t Its been years, but I worked on strategic planning for the DoD. As in the group that actually plans how to preform an invasion, though I was developing the software not doing the actual planning. They still wanted us to have an understanding of what’s involved. All I can suggest is your methods are inherently flawed. Ask yourself why you were unaware of all these incidents and how you might change that deficiency.

Edit: It’s hardly the only or most severe example. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Pueblo_(AGER-2) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Pueblo_(AGER-2) There’s also edge cases. Yeh Changti was trained by the CIA and then shot down flying a U-2 in 1963 and held in China for 19 years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeh_Changti https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeh_Changti

aphantastic 2y ago
Listing examples of chinese nationals captured in a time when 85% of Americans today weren’t even alive isn’t proving the point you seem to think it is. The simple fact of the matter is that modern countries simply don’t want to mess with america.
- Retric 2y ago
  Your question included allies, but if we’re talking US citizens only USS Pueblo (AGER-2) Was a capture of a US military vehicle, torture of its crew, and we did nothing. But how recently are you thinking here? 1994: US apologies and pays reparations to return US soldier shot down by NK. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_border_incidents_involving_North_and_South_Korea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_border_incidents_invol...
  - aphantastic 2y ago
    Sure, going back to the main point North Korea has guns and this helps to hem get their way. And if we restrict ourselves to those countries which are relevant to the main point (ICC member states), they don’t, and don’t. What’s your point? To date all you’ve done is list rule proving exceptions.
    - Retric 2y ago
      That’s no true Scotsman… but anyway as long as you’re giving up the idea that this different recently. Compare France or the UK as ICC member states with NK and your argument is obviously false. They have plenty of nukes to be a major issue. I’ll flip this around, try and find examples that fit your narrative outside of fiction or active wars. IE, situations where civilians are in charge of deciding what our military is doing.
      - aphantastic 2y ago
        I still don’t know what your point is. I’ve been consistent since the beginning. UK and France are quite weak indeed, nuclear is a separate plane that is irrelevant in this thread.
        Retric 2y ago
        You asked: > Do we have many examples of cases where countries have held US soldiers or commanders of allied nations captive without repercussion? And clear answer to that such a year yes, with dozens of examples off the top of my head that I was unsure in what context you might assume it was true. > UK and France are quite weak indeed Not in comparison to NK and especially not historic NK they aren’t. Have you ever actually studied foreign events, history, or looked into foreign militaries etc? You have such a distorted viewpoint I just find it baffling. In terms of traditional military NK has 1/3 the UK’s population, vastly worse industry, outdated equipment, minimal ability to move beyond their borders, etc. In a head to head fight they would lose badly.
        aphantastic 2y ago
        > Have you ever actually Every day of my life, actually. It’s clear you don’t, and I don’t particularly care. Good day.
        Retric 2y ago
        > It’s clear you don’t Its been years, but I worked on strategic planning for the DoD. As in the group that actually plans how to preform an invasion, though I was developing the software not doing the actual planning. They still wanted us to have an understanding of what’s involved. All I can suggest is your methods are inherently flawed. Ask yourself why you were unaware of all these incidents and how you might change that deficiency.