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Why these kind of stories happen only in US? Makes me feel unsafe to live in US.

by vinni2 2y ago

piva00 2y ago
As a non-US resident with experience from two very different police forces (Brazil vs Sweden) I'd say American police is much more similar to the Brazilian police rather than the Swedish (or Dutch, German, Danish, Norwegian, etc.) . Just as a background: Brazil's police has a rather odd setup, leftover from the military dictatorship, the investigative branch is called "civilian police" (Polícia Civil) while the one patrolling streets and enforcing day-to-day activities is the "military police" (Polícia Militar) which falls under the military branch command, but it's not the "military police" as the US Army one, as the Brazilian army police is "Polícia do Exército". To me, again as an outsider, the American police is very militarised, with very low training (and badly trained overall). The cultural aspects of the US around gun ownership also makes American cops much more trigger happy since in many places anyone could be carrying a gun. As much as there's brutality in almost any police force it seems the American one not only brutalise its citizens but also has very little in terms of accountability, there's no independent commission assigned to investigate it and since Internal Affairs is composed of peers of potential abusers it's also extremely ineffective. Contrast that with the aforementioned European countries, the police force goes through at minimum 3 years of training, they have to reach a Bachelor's level in Criminology. They aren't militarised, there's independent oversight, training is more focused on de-escalation, etc. Still there are incidents of brutalisation, cops being assholes, etc. but it's in a much lower level and degree than what I see from the US/Brazil cops. So no independent oversight of an extremely militarised branch of state power, coupled with the widespread presence of guns, little and bad training (including fostering a sense of cops fighting an "enemy", not being public servants), racism, a culture of protecting the in-group, and so on will inevitably lead to many fatal incidents. Getting out of this hole will be very difficult, politically I feel it's almost impossible since it will require extensive reforms in all levels of policing in the US, almost from the ground-up. I don't have any hope for this changing for the better anytime during my lifetime. It would require a mini-revolution of sorts across police forces in the USA...
reverendsteveii 2y ago
because since 9/11 the US has ridden a wave of fear into a police state where the police steal more than thieves (https://thewhyaxis.substack.com/p/cops-still-take-more-stuff-from-people https://thewhyaxis.substack.com/p/cops-still-take-more-stuff..., https://www.nemannlawoffices.com/blog/law-enforcement-seized-more-from-people-than-burglars-stole-last-year.cfm https://www.nemannlawoffices.com/blog/law-enforcement-seized...) because it's legal for them to just take your stuff without ever convicting you of a crime or even charging you with one (https://www.aclupa.org/en/issues/criminal-justice-reform/civil-asset-forfeiture https://www.aclupa.org/en/issues/criminal-justice-reform/civ...), there are geographical areas where your constitutional rights simply do not apply and police can search your house or car without a warrant or your permission (https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/border-zone#:~:text=The%20federal%20government%20defines%20a,within%20this%20100%2Dmile%20zone https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/border-zone#:~:text=Th....), the police can legally violate your civil rights unless you can prove that they knew they were doing it and decided to do it intentionally (essentially, ignorance of the law is an excuse to ignore the law, and it's next to impossible to prove someone did know something if they claim they didn't, so unless the cop murdering you says "I am doing this racistly" he can just say later that he doesn't know what the law is and instead of disqualifying him that fact will protect him, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qualified_immunity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qualified_immunity), we train police to feel like an occupying army in a territory where everyone is hostile, down to and including telling them to use pictures of their wives and children as targets to reduce hesitation to kill innocent people and teaching them that the sex they have after killing someone will be the best sex of their lives and that that's a perk of the job (https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/08/warrior-cop-class-dave-grossman-killology.html https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/08/warrior-cop-clas...), we very purposely do not make police track or publish figures on how many people they kill, and we also have this weird cultural tension we refuse to address where everyone has the right to carry a gun and a lot of people make it a huge part of their identity but also the police can legally kill you if they suspect that you could potentially have a gun, as is your right.

Why these kind of stories happen only in US? Makes me feel unsafe to live in US.

by vinni2 2y ago

Why these kind of stories happen only in US? Makes me feel unsafe to live in US.

As a non-US resident with experience from two very different police forces (Brazil vs Sweden) I'd say American police is much more similar to the Brazilian police rather than the Swedish (or Dutch, German, Danish, Norwegian, etc.) . Just as a background: Brazil's police has a rather odd setup, leftover from the military dictatorship, the investigative branch is called "civilian police" (Polícia Civil) while the one patrolling streets and enforcing day-to-day activities is the "military police" (Polícia Militar) which falls under the military branch command, but it's not the "military police" as the US Army one, as the Brazilian army police is "Polícia do Exército". To me, again as an outsider, the American police is very militarised, with very low training (and badly trained overall). The cultural aspects of the US around gun ownership also makes American cops much more trigger happy since in many places anyone could be carrying a gun. As much as there's brutality in almost any police force it seems the American one not only brutalise its citizens but also has very little in terms of accountability, there's no independent commission assigned to investigate it and since Internal Affairs is composed of peers of potential abusers it's also extremely ineffective. Contrast that with the aforementioned European countries, the police force goes through at minimum 3 years of training, they have to reach a Bachelor's level in Criminology. They aren't militarised, there's independent oversight, training is more focused on de-escalation, etc. Still there are incidents of brutalisation, cops being assholes, etc. but it's in a much lower level and degree than what I see from the US/Brazil cops. So no independent oversight of an extremely militarised branch of state power, coupled with the widespread presence of guns, little and bad training (including fostering a sense of cops fighting an "enemy", not being public servants), racism, a culture of protecting the in-group, and so on will inevitably lead to many fatal incidents. Getting out of this hole will be very difficult, politically I feel it's almost impossible since it will require extensive reforms in all levels of policing in the US, almost from the ground-up. I don't have any hope for this changing for the better anytime during my lifetime. It would require a mini-revolution of sorts across police forces in the USA...

reverendsteveii 2y ago

because since 9/11 the US has ridden a wave of fear into a police state where the police steal more than thieves (https://thewhyaxis.substack.com/p/cops-still-take-more-stuff-from-people https://thewhyaxis.substack.com/p/cops-still-take-more-stuff..., https://www.nemannlawoffices.com/blog/law-enforcement-seized-more-from-people-than-burglars-stole-last-year.cfm https://www.nemannlawoffices.com/blog/law-enforcement-seized...) because it's legal for them to just take your stuff without ever convicting you of a crime or even charging you with one (https://www.aclupa.org/en/issues/criminal-justice-reform/civil-asset-forfeiture https://www.aclupa.org/en/issues/criminal-justice-reform/civ...), there are geographical areas where your constitutional rights simply do not apply and police can search your house or car without a warrant or your permission (https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/border-zone#:~:text=The%20federal%20government%20defines%20a,within%20this%20100%2Dmile%20zone https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/border-zone#:~:text=Th....), the police can legally violate your civil rights unless you can prove that they knew they were doing it and decided to do it intentionally (essentially, ignorance of the law is an excuse to ignore the law, and it's next to impossible to prove someone did know something if they claim they didn't, so unless the cop murdering you says "I am doing this racistly" he can just say later that he doesn't know what the law is and instead of disqualifying him that fact will protect him, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qualified_immunity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qualified_immunity), we train police to feel like an occupying army in a territory where everyone is hostile, down to and including telling them to use pictures of their wives and children as targets to reduce hesitation to kill innocent people and teaching them that the sex they have after killing someone will be the best sex of their lives and that that's a perk of the job (https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/08/warrior-cop-class-dave-grossman-killology.html https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/08/warrior-cop-clas...), we very purposely do not make police track or publish figures on how many people they kill, and we also have this weird cultural tension we refuse to address where everyone has the right to carry a gun and a lot of people make it a huge part of their identity but also the police can legally kill you if they suspect that you could potentially have a gun, as is your right.