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"confirmed" data from Gaza at the moment is unreliable. The people who were doing the counting have either been killed or cleansed from the area. The official d
by peppers-ghost 2y ago
"confirmed" data from Gaza at the moment is unreliable. The people who were doing the counting have either been killed or cleansed from the area. The official death toll is still around 40k despite the reality being closer to 100-200k.
- edanm 2y agoIf you think the "confirmed" data is unreliable, what makes you think you know the "real" number? How is your number any more reliable?
- tuvocoical 2y ago[flagged]
- ryuhhnn 2y agosource?
- tuvocoical 2y ago[flagged]
- Qem 2y agoThat tabletmag analysis is basically statistical malpractice. See https://x.com/AlexKjaerum/status/1766564001977115022 https://x.com/AlexKjaerum/status/1766564001977115022 and https://x.com/nickburbank710/status/1770226449116430688 https://x.com/nickburbank710/status/1770226449116430688
- AzzieElbab 2y agoDo you need one when that ministry reports casualties exactly to single digits within minutes of any incident? Like "567 killed in Israeli attack on Gaza hospital", just look down at your keyboard to see where that number came from.
- tucnak 2y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misinformation_in_the_Israel%E2%80%93Hamas_war#Gaza_Health_Ministry_casualty_reports https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misinformation_in_the_Israel%E...
- ryuhhnn 2y ago> Abraham Wyner, a Pennsylvania professor of statistics, wrote in Tablet that the GHM casualty figures were "faked".[68] Wyner's article was analyzed by professor Joshua Loftus of the London School of Economics, who concluded Wyner's article was "one of the worst abuses of statistics I’ve ever seen".
- bbqfog 2y agoThis is completely false. Gaza Health Ministry provides the most accurate data. You could also just go on X or TikTok and see dozens of Palestinians murdered by the IDF every single day.
- neoromantique 2y ago>You could also just go on X or TikTok and see dozens of Palestinians murdered by the IDF every single day. Just make sure to not bother yourself looking up sources of the images/videos, lest you find that a lot of that is from Syria.
- newspaper1 2y ago[flagged]
- neoromantique 2y ago[flagged]
- mardifoufs 2y agoWhataboutism. If you are comparing Israel to Russia then yes I think we agree. Not sure if that was what you had in mind though. Also, military objectives according to the IDF. Which has been caught lying multiple times and is as reliable as Russia or Hamas I guess
- neoromantique 2y ago[flagged]
- mardifoufs 2y agoIs Israel defending itself when it creates settlements in land it doesn't own (and that even its allies do not consider to be Israel's) and publicly says that it will not stop doing it in the west bank? Or is that not aggression when Israel does it?
- nielsbot 2y agoPretty sure even Israel has said the Gaza health ministry’s numbers are usually correct. They have also been found to be generally correct in the past. Lastly the lower death count is the official health ministry number but the higher estimates are from others, e.g. The Lancet.
- adhamsalama 2y ago[flagged]
- PoignardAzur 2y agoThis isn't a claim you can drop without some very convincing source.
- nailer 2y ago[flagged]
- Qem 2y ago[flagged]
- tuvocoical 2y agohttps://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42205295 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42205295
- sekai 2y ago[flagged]
- cr__ 2y agoWhy don’t we have reliable sources?
- azinman2 2y ago[flagged]
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- pphysch 2y agoTo be clear, which side are you referring to?
- azinman2 2y ago[flagged]
- pphysch 2y agoYeah, I've heard all those official talking points a thousand times. I've also seen Israeli officials openly dehumanizing and calling for the mass murder of Palestinians, and theft of their land. And I've seen the graphic results. There's an undeniable reality here and sadly it doesn't align with your official government talking points.
- azinman2 2y agoI’m not going to engage in this highly controversial topic, there’s nothing new going on here. But to call these government talking points is wild. Go read hamas’s charter yourself: https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp
- bawolff 2y agoRegardless, total deaths don't matter, only deaths that were the result of crimes matter, in this context. Some of those deaths are going to be legal targets killed during combat, which is not evidence of a war crime. You have to split things out for the numbers to mean anything.
- xg15 2y agoBut the problem is that Israel's style of warfare is (intentionally or not) blurring the distinction between those numbers, by using methods of combat that have exceptionally high rates of collateral damage. The most extreme instances of this are the deliberate withholding of aid, both in the "total siege" in the beginning of the war, as well as operations like now in the north. You might hit a lot of legitimate targets with this, but it's also guaranteed you will impact all the civilians in the area. Generally, in this entire war (and also long before), Israel is far too quick with the "Human shields"/"collateral damage" argument to my liking, and using it as an excuse to basically disregard considerations for civilians at all. (It's also instructive to see how different the hostages and palestinian civilians are treated in IDF considerations, despite both groups technically being "human shields")
- ignoramous 2y ago> the problem is that Israel's style of warfare ... The most extreme instances Yep. The complication is, the Strip is close to being totally dependent on Israel, and yet chose war. I doubt any other country ruled by right-wingers, with that much power over their already (diplomatically, economically, socially) cornered enemy, would have acted any differently. I guess, the sequence of events reeks of desperation & despair from all sides and has ended up exposing one & all.
- xg15 2y agoIt's not as if life was particularly pleasant there before the war. Israel was already before restricting the maximally attainable quality of life. Or as if the Palestinian control group in the West Bank who had chosen cooperation was faring any better. Also that stuff is exactly what international humanitarian law is supposed to prevent. Obligations of the occupying power and all.
- highcountess 2y ago[flagged]
- lupire 2y ago[flagged]
- nabla9 2y ago>unless something is documented in a very specific gate-keeper approved way Using strict process and critical methodology is the only want to approximate truth. > observable reality right before our own eyes. We don't observe reality correctly with our eyes. We (including you and me) are naked monkeys. Petty, vindictive, and biased. Palestinians and Israeli Jews are just like us but live in a cesspool of religion, anger and violent history.
- ClumsyPilot 2y ago> Using strict process and critical methodology is the only want to approximate truth So now a person in position of power has deliberately obstructed this process. Will you pretend that you have no data to act, or wake up and realise that you are dealing with a malicious entity and normal rules do not apppy?
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- kdhusakdjhsadkj 2y ago[dead]
- culi 2y agoGP is not citing the ICC. The ICC never claims 41 deaths are confirmed. GP is citing a Wikipedia article which is undergoing an edit war. The Wikipedia page had cited 62,413 deaths and then was switched to a pro-Israel source that instead says "41+" ICC never claimed only 41 deaths were confirmed
- dlubarov 2y ago[flagged]
- babkayaga 2y ago[flagged]