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That's true for an individual, but if you're looking at a population then you're seeing a situation where we have zero other solutions that are actually effecti

That's true for an individual, but if you're looking at a population then you're seeing a situation where we have zero other solutions that are actually effective at curbing obesity. The only "natural" way to solve it is probably to overhaul our entire culture, redesign our cities and neighborhoods, et c., and that's not happening. Skinny people move to the US and get fat. They're not skinnier back in their home country because they've got greater willpower or are harder workers, but because they aren't in the US. If harder work isn't why skinnier countries are skinnier, we shouldn't expect it to help us out of our problem, and indeed, we have nothing else we've studied that is terribly effective over time, and certainly nothing cheap enough to deploy on a large scale. Again, yes, for an individual your perspective is the only thing one has (well... until these drugs) but looking from a policy level, it's useless.

MrMcCall 2y ago
A person's body mass is nothing more than the combination of what a person eats and what a person does in their life. The only really effective policy is to inform people that that is the simple, honest truth of every single person, and that the quality of food we eat is important in that equation. Eat better food, be more active. Yes, it is difficult, especially for us peasants. But that is science. I hope a miracle drug helps folks preyed upon by the food industry, but side effects of that industry's drugs leave me skeptical of their being lastingly beneficial.
- vundercind 2y ago
  > The only really effective policy is to inform people that that is the simple, honest truth of every single person, and that the quality of food we eat is important in that equation. It's literally not effective. As in, well-studied, isn't effective. Again, it's the only guidance one has to go on, personally, so it's fine to hold onto that as an individual navigating the world, but it is emphatically not effective policy.
  - MrMcCall 2y ago
    I wrestled in high school and college, my friend. If you don't eat and work out a lot, you will lose weight, guaranteed. It's the nature of the human body; it's thermodynamics and biochemistry and hard as hell as we get older, especially when poor. But sure, it's not effective but only because people have a hard time fending off our cravings. It requires breaking our cycles and learning how to eat better and eat less and do something other than lay around watching tv. As to policy: if we curbed the corps' ability to profit off our ill-health, then we'd surely be doing something positive for society. It would also be very helpful to have cleaner air and more and larger parks that are safe for one and all. What can I say, I dream big. Personally, I recommend everyone avoid any and all refined sugar and alcohol, as they mess with our hormones and gut biome. And that's very difficult for 2024 America, evidently.
    - hollerith 2y ago
      >I wrestled in high school and college, my friend. If you don't eat and work out a lot, you will lose weight, guaranteed. It's the nature of the human body That is like dismissing a bug report because "it works fine on my machine", though.
    - vundercind 2y ago
      Yes, it works if you do it. No, relying on it to get a population to lose weight doesn't work, even if that population has self-selected for wanting to lose weight and you educate the hell out of them.
    - unshavedyak 2y ago
      > I wrestled in high school and college, my friend. If you don't eat and work out a lot, you will lose weight, guaranteed. It's the nature of the human body; it's thermodynamics and biochemistry and hard as hell as we get older, especially when poor. No one is questioning CICO. The part being questioned is why it's more difficult for others. For example, my wife and I share an almost identical diet and activity level, yet i struggle to keep weight on and she struggles to keep weight off and with similar lifestyles. CICO works of course, but not only do our bodies innately do different things with the calories that they process but we simply experience that world differently. I could drop down to unhealthily thin levels without even trying. She would be in misery even trying to maintain my weight. This isn't an excuse necessarily. Rather just saying there's a lot of information beyond simple CICO that we're missing. Complexity in biome, addictive behaviors, and a full on assault from the food industry. The ease i have in weight loss is not due to my own efforts. Thin people shouldn't break their arm patting themselves on the back, because imo it's usually not due to our own will.

MrMcCall 2y ago

A person's body mass is nothing more than the combination of what a person eats and what a person does in their life. The only really effective policy is to inform people that that is the simple, honest truth of every single person, and that the quality of food we eat is important in that equation. Eat better food, be more active. Yes, it is difficult, especially for us peasants. But that is science. I hope a miracle drug helps folks preyed upon by the food industry, but side effects of that industry's drugs leave me skeptical of their being lastingly beneficial.

vundercind 2y ago
> The only really effective policy is to inform people that that is the simple, honest truth of every single person, and that the quality of food we eat is important in that equation. It's literally not effective. As in, well-studied, isn't effective. Again, it's the only guidance one has to go on, personally, so it's fine to hold onto that as an individual navigating the world, but it is emphatically not effective policy.
- MrMcCall 2y ago
  I wrestled in high school and college, my friend. If you don't eat and work out a lot, you will lose weight, guaranteed. It's the nature of the human body; it's thermodynamics and biochemistry and hard as hell as we get older, especially when poor. But sure, it's not effective but only because people have a hard time fending off our cravings. It requires breaking our cycles and learning how to eat better and eat less and do something other than lay around watching tv. As to policy: if we curbed the corps' ability to profit off our ill-health, then we'd surely be doing something positive for society. It would also be very helpful to have cleaner air and more and larger parks that are safe for one and all. What can I say, I dream big. Personally, I recommend everyone avoid any and all refined sugar and alcohol, as they mess with our hormones and gut biome. And that's very difficult for 2024 America, evidently.
  - hollerith 2y ago
    >I wrestled in high school and college, my friend. If you don't eat and work out a lot, you will lose weight, guaranteed. It's the nature of the human body That is like dismissing a bug report because "it works fine on my machine", though.
  - vundercind 2y ago
    Yes, it works if you do it. No, relying on it to get a population to lose weight doesn't work, even if that population has self-selected for wanting to lose weight and you educate the hell out of them.
  - unshavedyak 2y ago
    > I wrestled in high school and college, my friend. If you don't eat and work out a lot, you will lose weight, guaranteed. It's the nature of the human body; it's thermodynamics and biochemistry and hard as hell as we get older, especially when poor. No one is questioning CICO. The part being questioned is why it's more difficult for others. For example, my wife and I share an almost identical diet and activity level, yet i struggle to keep weight on and she struggles to keep weight off and with similar lifestyles. CICO works of course, but not only do our bodies innately do different things with the calories that they process but we simply experience that world differently. I could drop down to unhealthily thin levels without even trying. She would be in misery even trying to maintain my weight. This isn't an excuse necessarily. Rather just saying there's a lot of information beyond simple CICO that we're missing. Complexity in biome, addictive behaviors, and a full on assault from the food industry. The ease i have in weight loss is not due to my own efforts. Thin people shouldn't break their arm patting themselves on the back, because imo it's usually not due to our own will.