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These comparisons are always interesting because there are malevolent assumptions one can make about US car size, but there are also Occam's razor convenience a

These comparisons are always interesting because there are malevolent assumptions one can make about US car size, but there are also Occam's razor convenience aspects / differences in demographics. Compare to Europe and Japan, US has - MUCH lower energy costs, larger family sizes, much further travel distances, and smaller % of population in pre-modern urban areas with pre-automobile sized roads. Add to that a less top-down centralized government in the US and the resulting lack of mass transit, particularly inter-city, and you end up with more people, driving bigger cars, further.

happosai 2y ago
Yet most of American traffic is single-occupant commuting. There is no reason why they need big-ass SUV or truck for that. Burn the planet while making fun on of Prius drivers.
- steveBK123 2y ago
  I drive an EV, I don't make fun of Prius drivers. Unfortunately due to duration / cost of ownership, families over-purchase in terms of vehicle capacity. Yes, dad maybe does most of his driving to work alone in the car. But on weekends he needs to be able to lug the kids around in their giant baby seats, strollers, etc. So most parents I know end up owning 2 vehicles of sufficient size for their overall needs. I know some families that have an extra car for commuting on top of the 2 family sized cars but this itself is something of a luxury.
  - vel0city 2y ago
    > But on weekends he needs to be able to lug the kids around in their giant baby seats, strollers, etc. Sure, but Dad doesn't need 3,000lbs of payload capacity and a 6ft+ bed and wheel spacers and an extra lift kit to carry a stroller. I've got two kids and a two-child stroller. There's more than enough space in something the size of a Mach E or a Model 3/Y to have multiple kids in car seats and all their stuff. In the end pretty much all of that could have fit in my old Accord as well.
    - steveBK123 2y ago
      Kind of a straw man.. yes plenty of people have cars that are too big. But a TON of people have vehicles in the MachE/ModelY crossover footprint. Look at how every brand has 3 cars that size and they all look the same. All of these, including your old accord are bigger than a Prius.
      - vel0city 2y ago
        I live in North Texas. If this is a strawman then I live in a city mostly populated by strawmen. Crows don't stand a chance in Dallas.
        steveBK123 2y ago
        Yeah I think there's large regional differences. Going off lists like this - https://www.caranddriver.com/news/g43553191/bestselling-cars-2023/ https://www.caranddriver.com/news/g43553191/bestselling-cars... While theres some very high volume truck models, which in fact take up the 2 highest sales by model slots, overall if you add up the far larger number of sedan/crossover/suvs you get to ~2x the overall sales. I suppose one can argue about how you categorize big SUVs like say the Explorer and Grand Cherokee.. overall I think the numbers still hold. Completely agree there's still more big trucks on the road than there should be, but '3,000lbs of payload capacity and a 6ft+ bed and wheel spacers and an extra lift kit' is a very specific demographic, and they were never going to be talked into a Prius.
    - bluGill 2y ago
      Dad doesn't need that every time, but he has some other time when he needs it. A truck can do just about anything you might want of a car, while a car cannot do everything a truck can. Cars are expensive, and you pay for them even if don't use them - car payment, taxes, insurance are all prices you pay even if the car isn't moved. If you have a car for each need the cost goes up fast. If the car isn't used much your maintenance costs are more than expected again because things like sun and ozone wear parts out not just use. People tell me to just rent a truck when you need one. However that is hard and expensive. Most places won't rent you a truck, they will rent you a truck shaped vehicle with restrictions meaning you can't use it like a truck. When you find an exception the costs it very high and they charge per mile rates - it doesn't take many uses to be worth the extra costs of having a truck that does everything instead even before you account for the hassle of going to get the rental truck. Of course small cars can do more than most people give them credit for but they are still compromise and there are a lot of things that they can't do.
- potato3732842 2y ago
  >Burn the planet while making fun on of Prius drivers Not defending status symbol trucks but he rear seats of compact cars aren't known for getting a lot of ass.
- closeparen 2y ago
  It's rational to choose your vehicle based on worst-case rather than average-case needs. Buying, insuring, and garaging multiple vehicles for multiple purposes is ludicrously expensive. Renting only a little less so.
  - vel0city 2y ago
    > It's rational to choose your vehicle based on worst-case rather than average-case needs. I guess it's rational for me to buy a 25' box truck to daily drive since I used to rent them every couple of years for moving apartments.
    - closeparen 2y ago
      Moving trucks are in a sweet spot of impractical to own, incredibly cheap per hour, and only a few hours needed at a time. Passenger vehicles with enough back-seat room for adults, a third passenger row, more cargo room, or 4WD capability are expensive and inconvenient enough to rent + cheap and practical enough to daily-drive that the use case would really have to be pretty rare.
  - acdha 2y ago
    You can’t say that without considering the relative costs. If you buy a pickup truck because you might move, you’re paying at twice as much up front and close to that in ongoing costs for the life of the vehicle even before you get to things like the inconvenience of finding parking. In that case, it often doesn’t make rational sense unless you move unusually frequently. If you’re buying one to haul building supplies every weekend, of course, those rental costs add up and it makes more sense. The problem is that for all we like to claim to be rational, most people make those decisions emotionally and rationalize as needed to explain it. That’s how you get 90% of SUVs never leaving a paved road because the owner thought it was a lifestyle accessory which made them look richer, but talks like they’re suddenly going to start taking 6 friends backcountry camping year-round.
    - steveBK123 2y ago
      Most SUVs are not actually 4x4 so taking them off-road was never the plan. Yuppies driving Range Rovers in Manhattan is a whole different discussion though.
codexb 2y ago
A large reason for the continued growth in size of US cars is EPA gas mileage requirements. Vehicles with larger footprints have less restrictive MPG requirements, and so manufacturers target larger footprints while trying to reduce weight. MPG stays roughly the same year after year, but cars get consistently larger.
- eleveriven 2y ago
  And what are the environmental costs of this trend?
  - scott_w 2y ago
    The USA is the biggest greenhouse gas emitter per capita on earth.
    - badpun 2y ago
      According to Wikipedia, USA is in 16th place, behind a bunch of small countries, and Saudi Arabia, Canada, Australia and Russia.
      - scott_w 2y ago
        Small countries are ignored on most metrics because they heavily skew to extremes, so aren’t useful. I saw Russia being slightly higher but figured it was marginal and “we emit slightly less than a petrostate in the middle of bombing the fuck out of their neighbour” was hardly a “win” for the USA…

happosai 2y ago

Yet most of American traffic is single-occupant commuting. There is no reason why they need big-ass SUV or truck for that. Burn the planet while making fun on of Prius drivers.

steveBK123 2y ago
I drive an EV, I don't make fun of Prius drivers. Unfortunately due to duration / cost of ownership, families over-purchase in terms of vehicle capacity. Yes, dad maybe does most of his driving to work alone in the car. But on weekends he needs to be able to lug the kids around in their giant baby seats, strollers, etc. So most parents I know end up owning 2 vehicles of sufficient size for their overall needs. I know some families that have an extra car for commuting on top of the 2 family sized cars but this itself is something of a luxury.
- vel0city 2y ago
  > But on weekends he needs to be able to lug the kids around in their giant baby seats, strollers, etc. Sure, but Dad doesn't need 3,000lbs of payload capacity and a 6ft+ bed and wheel spacers and an extra lift kit to carry a stroller. I've got two kids and a two-child stroller. There's more than enough space in something the size of a Mach E or a Model 3/Y to have multiple kids in car seats and all their stuff. In the end pretty much all of that could have fit in my old Accord as well.
  - steveBK123 2y ago
    Kind of a straw man.. yes plenty of people have cars that are too big. But a TON of people have vehicles in the MachE/ModelY crossover footprint. Look at how every brand has 3 cars that size and they all look the same. All of these, including your old accord are bigger than a Prius.
    - vel0city 2y ago
      I live in North Texas. If this is a strawman then I live in a city mostly populated by strawmen. Crows don't stand a chance in Dallas.
      - steveBK123 2y ago
        Yeah I think there's large regional differences. Going off lists like this - https://www.caranddriver.com/news/g43553191/bestselling-cars-2023/ https://www.caranddriver.com/news/g43553191/bestselling-cars... While theres some very high volume truck models, which in fact take up the 2 highest sales by model slots, overall if you add up the far larger number of sedan/crossover/suvs you get to ~2x the overall sales. I suppose one can argue about how you categorize big SUVs like say the Explorer and Grand Cherokee.. overall I think the numbers still hold. Completely agree there's still more big trucks on the road than there should be, but '3,000lbs of payload capacity and a 6ft+ bed and wheel spacers and an extra lift kit' is a very specific demographic, and they were never going to be talked into a Prius.
  - bluGill 2y ago
    Dad doesn't need that every time, but he has some other time when he needs it. A truck can do just about anything you might want of a car, while a car cannot do everything a truck can. Cars are expensive, and you pay for them even if don't use them - car payment, taxes, insurance are all prices you pay even if the car isn't moved. If you have a car for each need the cost goes up fast. If the car isn't used much your maintenance costs are more than expected again because things like sun and ozone wear parts out not just use. People tell me to just rent a truck when you need one. However that is hard and expensive. Most places won't rent you a truck, they will rent you a truck shaped vehicle with restrictions meaning you can't use it like a truck. When you find an exception the costs it very high and they charge per mile rates - it doesn't take many uses to be worth the extra costs of having a truck that does everything instead even before you account for the hassle of going to get the rental truck. Of course small cars can do more than most people give them credit for but they are still compromise and there are a lot of things that they can't do.
potato3732842 2y ago
>Burn the planet while making fun on of Prius drivers Not defending status symbol trucks but he rear seats of compact cars aren't known for getting a lot of ass.
closeparen 2y ago
It's rational to choose your vehicle based on worst-case rather than average-case needs. Buying, insuring, and garaging multiple vehicles for multiple purposes is ludicrously expensive. Renting only a little less so.
- vel0city 2y ago
  > It's rational to choose your vehicle based on worst-case rather than average-case needs. I guess it's rational for me to buy a 25' box truck to daily drive since I used to rent them every couple of years for moving apartments.
  - closeparen 2y ago
    Moving trucks are in a sweet spot of impractical to own, incredibly cheap per hour, and only a few hours needed at a time. Passenger vehicles with enough back-seat room for adults, a third passenger row, more cargo room, or 4WD capability are expensive and inconvenient enough to rent + cheap and practical enough to daily-drive that the use case would really have to be pretty rare.
- acdha 2y ago
  You can’t say that without considering the relative costs. If you buy a pickup truck because you might move, you’re paying at twice as much up front and close to that in ongoing costs for the life of the vehicle even before you get to things like the inconvenience of finding parking. In that case, it often doesn’t make rational sense unless you move unusually frequently. If you’re buying one to haul building supplies every weekend, of course, those rental costs add up and it makes more sense. The problem is that for all we like to claim to be rational, most people make those decisions emotionally and rationalize as needed to explain it. That’s how you get 90% of SUVs never leaving a paved road because the owner thought it was a lifestyle accessory which made them look richer, but talks like they’re suddenly going to start taking 6 friends backcountry camping year-round.
  - steveBK123 2y ago
    Most SUVs are not actually 4x4 so taking them off-road was never the plan. Yuppies driving Range Rovers in Manhattan is a whole different discussion though.

codexb 2y ago

A large reason for the continued growth in size of US cars is EPA gas mileage requirements. Vehicles with larger footprints have less restrictive MPG requirements, and so manufacturers target larger footprints while trying to reduce weight. MPG stays roughly the same year after year, but cars get consistently larger.

eleveriven 2y ago
And what are the environmental costs of this trend?
- scott_w 2y ago
  The USA is the biggest greenhouse gas emitter per capita on earth.
  - badpun 2y ago
    According to Wikipedia, USA is in 16th place, behind a bunch of small countries, and Saudi Arabia, Canada, Australia and Russia.
    - scott_w 2y ago
      Small countries are ignored on most metrics because they heavily skew to extremes, so aren’t useful. I saw Russia being slightly higher but figured it was marginal and “we emit slightly less than a petrostate in the middle of bombing the fuck out of their neighbour” was hardly a “win” for the USA…