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> In a 2024 analysis of fatality rate per mile driven from 2018-2022, the worst car manufacturers were, starting from the worst, were Tesla, Kia, Buick, Dodge,

> In a 2024 analysis of fatality rate per mile driven from 2018-2022, the worst car manufacturers were, starting from the worst, were Tesla, Kia, Buick, Dodge, and then Hyundai. I don't think this is a tree Elon wants to be barking at too loudly. But then again, you never know, every time I read the news I can't tell whether I'm reading The Onion or not.

potato3732842 2y ago
>he worst car manufacturers were, starting from the worst, were Tesla, Kia, Buick, Dodge, and then Hyundai. Look at that list of brands though. You'd have to have to be blinded by motivated reasoning to not think that who buys what might have more than a little bit to do with it. Edit: Just to be clear, I say this not in defense of any particular brand but in offense of anyone who engages in naive surface level assessment.
- close04 2y ago
  I'd be very interested in a "deaths by weight class" comparison too. Size and weight are huge factors in an accident. I'm not at all surprised if a Kia Rio is a death trap in an accident facing most likely an SUV twice the weight. I am surprised to see Tesla at the top of the fatalities chart though, punching a few weight categories above your average Kia.
- nemomarx 2y ago
  Maybe I'm missing something, what's the commonality? I thought Kia had a reputation for cheap compact cars, Dodge for trucks, Hyundai I hear of in the same conversation as Toyota, etc. They seem like they all target different markets? And certainly Tesla's aren't cheap right?
  - potato3732842 2y ago
    It's not commonality, it's that even if like for like the vehicles are equivalent or even safer there's selection bias at play as a result of what they sell and who they sell it to. To use a very broad brush: People who buy Tesla sedans are basically the "german car weaving with no blinker" demographics of yesteryear so if someone's gonna hit a pole at 100 it'll be them. Buick sells pretty safe stuff to pretty conservative buyers buy they skew toward age where they'd keel over from an open hand slap so surviving more than a fender bender isn't likely and they're exactly the kind of people who are gonna get t-boned at 60 by something they just didn't see. Dodge basically sells Challengers and Chargers these days (Ram is separate brand for the timeline listed) and the stereotype seems to generally check out. Hyundai and Kia are kind of the odd ones out but they sell a lot of low end and small stuff which doesn't exactly attract the least risky buyer demographics and the cars aren't exactly loaded with safety themselves. The comparison really needs to be done on a higher resolution otherwise you get stuff like Volvo and Lexus looking artificially good because of course nobody dies in high end SUVs and sedans driven mostly by people of non-risky age and decent means and Ford and GM look good because they sell god knows how many fleet vehicles that only get driven responsibly on the clock and it's kind of hard to kill yourself in a 3/4 ton pickup anyway.
    - coredog64 2y ago
      I’m wondering if the “Kia Boys” phenomenon moves the needle of fatality rates.
      - Interesco 2y ago
        This is what I was wondering - around me, many of these cars were stolen by kids under 16 with no drivers license. I know of a few cases where they crashed on the highway killing 3+.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
- foooorsyth 2y ago
  Driver demographics play a huge factor (young men are the deadliest drivers). Also, the makeup of your vehicle lineup skews the numbers. Small crossovers are the deadliest vehicles (low mass, prone to rollover). Tesla’s lineup is small (only 5 vehicles) and the Model Y dominates sales numbers. That hurts their overall fatality per mile number. Looking at real world results is still important. The BMW F10 530i had zero worldwide fatalities over its entire production. Results like that should speak more than contrived sled tests.
infecto 2y ago
Unfortunately I have a hard time following the data for that quote. I wonder if he simply averaged out numbers but he also does not cite sources and instead he just has a circular link, the html writeup links to mastodon which links to his article. On the model ranking the Honda CRV Hyrbid comes ahead of a model y.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

potato3732842 2y ago

>he worst car manufacturers were, starting from the worst, were Tesla, Kia, Buick, Dodge, and then Hyundai. Look at that list of brands though. You'd have to have to be blinded by motivated reasoning to not think that who buys what might have more than a little bit to do with it. Edit: Just to be clear, I say this not in defense of any particular brand but in offense of anyone who engages in naive surface level assessment.

close04 2y ago
I'd be very interested in a "deaths by weight class" comparison too. Size and weight are huge factors in an accident. I'm not at all surprised if a Kia Rio is a death trap in an accident facing most likely an SUV twice the weight. I am surprised to see Tesla at the top of the fatalities chart though, punching a few weight categories above your average Kia.
nemomarx 2y ago
Maybe I'm missing something, what's the commonality? I thought Kia had a reputation for cheap compact cars, Dodge for trucks, Hyundai I hear of in the same conversation as Toyota, etc. They seem like they all target different markets? And certainly Tesla's aren't cheap right?
- potato3732842 2y ago
  It's not commonality, it's that even if like for like the vehicles are equivalent or even safer there's selection bias at play as a result of what they sell and who they sell it to. To use a very broad brush: People who buy Tesla sedans are basically the "german car weaving with no blinker" demographics of yesteryear so if someone's gonna hit a pole at 100 it'll be them. Buick sells pretty safe stuff to pretty conservative buyers buy they skew toward age where they'd keel over from an open hand slap so surviving more than a fender bender isn't likely and they're exactly the kind of people who are gonna get t-boned at 60 by something they just didn't see. Dodge basically sells Challengers and Chargers these days (Ram is separate brand for the timeline listed) and the stereotype seems to generally check out. Hyundai and Kia are kind of the odd ones out but they sell a lot of low end and small stuff which doesn't exactly attract the least risky buyer demographics and the cars aren't exactly loaded with safety themselves. The comparison really needs to be done on a higher resolution otherwise you get stuff like Volvo and Lexus looking artificially good because of course nobody dies in high end SUVs and sedans driven mostly by people of non-risky age and decent means and Ford and GM look good because they sell god knows how many fleet vehicles that only get driven responsibly on the clock and it's kind of hard to kill yourself in a 3/4 ton pickup anyway.
  - coredog64 2y ago
    I’m wondering if the “Kia Boys” phenomenon moves the needle of fatality rates.
    - Interesco 2y ago
      This is what I was wondering - around me, many of these cars were stolen by kids under 16 with no drivers license. I know of a few cases where they crashed on the highway killing 3+.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
foooorsyth 2y ago
Driver demographics play a huge factor (young men are the deadliest drivers). Also, the makeup of your vehicle lineup skews the numbers. Small crossovers are the deadliest vehicles (low mass, prone to rollover). Tesla’s lineup is small (only 5 vehicles) and the Model Y dominates sales numbers. That hurts their overall fatality per mile number. Looking at real world results is still important. The BMW F10 530i had zero worldwide fatalities over its entire production. Results like that should speak more than contrived sled tests.

infecto 2y ago

Unfortunately I have a hard time following the data for that quote. I wonder if he simply averaged out numbers but he also does not cite sources and instead he just has a circular link, the html writeup links to mastodon which links to his article. On the model ranking the Honda CRV Hyrbid comes ahead of a model y.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]