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Holy shit, is this satire? If so, this is a perfect imitation of some of the commenters who go around here pretending that the entire world agrees with their mi

Holy shit, is this satire? If so, this is a perfect imitation of some of the commenters who go around here pretending that the entire world agrees with their minority viewpoint that neither property nor effort have any established value. If this isn't satire, well all I can say is i hope you build something awesome one day. I presume your above manifesto can be construed as an invitation to insert myself between you and the userbase you invested so much to accumulate?

fusiongyro 14y ago
If I have a product and a set of users, and you have a way of increasing both my revenue and my users satisfaction by inserting yourself between us, please do. The OP's point is that undermining Craigslist makes no sense for Padmapper, since that's where the data comes from. If people who list apartments get them rented faster because of Padmapper, they like it. If people looking for apartments find them faster because of Padmapper, they like it. If it increases Craigslist's revenue, they like it. If all of these points are positive, it's hard to understand why Craigslist would be against it. Please recognize the distinction. I'm not saying they're outside their rights to deny this access or that Padmapper is somehow within theirs by violating the ToS, just that if it's a win for everyone, shutting it down doesn't make sense.
- jessedhillon 14y ago
  Disintermediation -- getting your users used to coming to my site to look at your data is the first step to making you irrelevant and forgettable. PM knows who the renters and the listers are; it's a small step to convince some listers to list with PM first. Maybe PM will agree to repost on CL as well, but as long as listers come to PM first, the relationship between PM and CL is flipped. Eric might protest that all he wants is to save apartment hunters from minutes of work. The reality is that PM's long-term viability depends on him getting acces to some of that listing fee cash, which almost defintely means reducing CL's revenue. Unless you think he's going to convince agents to pay twice to get in front of an overlapping set of viewers.
  - fusiongyro 14y ago
    I still think it would be possible to work this out with a more creative ToS. Problem one could be managed by making it part of the ToS that you won't aggregate from other sites. Problem two could be managed either by making it part of the ToS that you don't post your own listings, or by making you pay to have them listed at Craigslist at the same time.
  - joering2 14y ago
    > PM knows who the renters and the listers are; it's a small step to convince some listers to list with PM first. You need to learn a little bit about Craiglist. Every single section of the site has been copied over and over again, including big names like Angie's List, Ebay, etc. But yet its been so many years and Craiglist traffic and revenue continue to grow. CL has such an incredible solid network effect that me and most users couldnt care less how awesome the website to quickly browse CL photos grow. The moment they go solo and decide to disconnect, the moment I come back to CL to post/browse. Simple.
    - deleted 14y ago
      [deleted]

fusiongyro 14y ago

If I have a product and a set of users, and you have a way of increasing both my revenue and my users satisfaction by inserting yourself between us, please do. The OP's point is that undermining Craigslist makes no sense for Padmapper, since that's where the data comes from. If people who list apartments get them rented faster because of Padmapper, they like it. If people looking for apartments find them faster because of Padmapper, they like it. If it increases Craigslist's revenue, they like it. If all of these points are positive, it's hard to understand why Craigslist would be against it. Please recognize the distinction. I'm not saying they're outside their rights to deny this access or that Padmapper is somehow within theirs by violating the ToS, just that if it's a win for everyone, shutting it down doesn't make sense.

jessedhillon 14y ago
Disintermediation -- getting your users used to coming to my site to look at your data is the first step to making you irrelevant and forgettable. PM knows who the renters and the listers are; it's a small step to convince some listers to list with PM first. Maybe PM will agree to repost on CL as well, but as long as listers come to PM first, the relationship between PM and CL is flipped. Eric might protest that all he wants is to save apartment hunters from minutes of work. The reality is that PM's long-term viability depends on him getting acces to some of that listing fee cash, which almost defintely means reducing CL's revenue. Unless you think he's going to convince agents to pay twice to get in front of an overlapping set of viewers.
- fusiongyro 14y ago
  I still think it would be possible to work this out with a more creative ToS. Problem one could be managed by making it part of the ToS that you won't aggregate from other sites. Problem two could be managed either by making it part of the ToS that you don't post your own listings, or by making you pay to have them listed at Craigslist at the same time.
- joering2 14y ago
  > PM knows who the renters and the listers are; it's a small step to convince some listers to list with PM first. You need to learn a little bit about Craiglist. Every single section of the site has been copied over and over again, including big names like Angie's List, Ebay, etc. But yet its been so many years and Craiglist traffic and revenue continue to grow. CL has such an incredible solid network effect that me and most users couldnt care less how awesome the website to quickly browse CL photos grow. The moment they go solo and decide to disconnect, the moment I come back to CL to post/browse. Simple.
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]