7 ms·

What's luxurious about Apple products is that they tend to respect your time

by bobbylarrybobby 2y ago

dismalaf 2y ago
Those are words without much meaning. So, how do you think they "respect" your time more than other smartphones?
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > how do you think they "respect" your time more than other smartphones? I have an iPhone. It just does its job. Updates in the background. Repairs are a peach, especially by mail. They don’t spam me.
  - dismalaf 2y ago
    Updates in the background? It's not 2005 anymore... All phones do that. Androids have done that since version 1.0. Just works? Ditto. So the answer is just... vibes?
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      Partially yes, Android vs iPhone is largely vibes. The point is it’s a product that works for years without the user having to fuck with it too much for most use cases. If the hardware fits your needs, it’s the best in the world. If you like a 3.5mm jack, there are other options—hence why it’s tough to argue they have a smartphone monopoly. If you’re asking why it’s luxury, it’s a combination of the materials, machining and service experience. Luxury products aren’t necessarily better, certainly not for someone who can’t afford them. They’re simply more luxurious. Easier, more comfortable, et cetera.
      - dismalaf 2y ago
        This is the thing though. Non-Apple phones are made of equally nice materials, have equally nice design and equal or more utility. Several Samsung phones and the folding Pixel are more money than the top end iPhone. Hell, because of carrier subsidies the top end iPhone can be had for $0 up front. So what makes an iPhone more luxurious than say, a Galaxy S24 Ultra, Z Fold 6, Pixel 9 Pro XL or 9 Pro Fold?
        JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > Non-Apple phones are made of equally nice materials The machine quality is totally different. > what makes an iPhone more luxurious than say, a Galaxy S24 Ultra, Z Fold 6, Pixel 9 Pro XL or 9 Pro Fold Start with the BOM.
        dismalaf 2y ago
        Lol so it's the logo and marketing. Gotcha.
        JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        I mean yes, that’s a big part of what distinguishes luxury goods. Again, luxury doesn’t mean better. When I say machine quality, though, I’m referring to their titanium and aluminum. I’ve machined some aluminum and know people who have done titanium. It’s really hard, and they do it well. What does that add to the user experience? I can’t say it’s anything tangible. But I appreciate it. That’s luxury. It’s orthogonal to utility in many ways.
        whatisthiseven 2y ago
        I think when you say "luxury goods" you mean to say Veblen Goods, which are about signaling wealth or status through the purchase of a particular brand. When the functions of a good are divorced from its price and the brand is what defines "the luxury", it ceases to signal quality and instead is a signal all its own.
makeitdouble 2y ago
Does your time feel respected when you're leaving the Kindle app to open a web browser, search for the book that was next in the series, buy it, and get back to your Kindle app to continue reading ?
- stogot 2y ago
  Ouch, this just happened to me the other day and it was irritating that Apple forces other companies to force users to do a dance
  - slowmovintarget 2y ago
    They don't force it. Amazon, for example, just doesn't want to pay the 30% platform cut. Understandable, but not force, just deterrence.
    - makeitdouble 2y ago
      By that token no company is forced to anything. For instance if the EU or the DOJ were to require Apple to change their policies, we could say Apple isn't forced to do so, as they still can refuse and "just" pay enormous fines until bankruptcy. I'm not sure what we would call "force" if we take that definition.
      - slowmovintarget 2y ago
        Force of law is different than fees in a walled garden. Fines are not the same as fees. Every player that does commerce on Apple's infrastructure pays fees to do so. Fines are punishment.
        makeitdouble 2y ago
        While fines should be different, but in practice that line is either blurry or non existent depending on the circumstances. For instance if Apple had to pay a global total of 2 millions of fine every year for their AppStore policy, it would be rolled in as cost of doing business and they'd keep ignoring the rulings for decades. If Amazon only had minor punishment for breaking AppSore rules they'd do it yesterday. A binding contract is only as strong as its penalties, and in that regard we can see laws a form of contract and vice versa.
sofixa 2y ago
By giving you an endless spinning wheel instead of just telling you what the issue is? I've had this while trying to install apps on an iPad (you need a payment method if the free app you're downloading has extra paid stuff you could buy from it, but why would they need to tell you that) and with their TV+ service where downloading too many (how much? who knows) things at the same time, like you're about to board a long haul flight, gets them stuck in a loop without downloading. Another one of my favourites is "A USB device is consuming too much power, try disconnecting and reconnecting it" without any way of identifying which device it is.
fragmede 2y ago
Of all the things they do, that is not one of them. How long does it take from pressing a folder to showing its contents on iOS? How much faster would all of it be without a fancy fade in/out animation? or shrink to dock, or anything else in the UI that takes longer than it has to because it looks cooler that way.
- satvikpendem 2y ago
  It's funny because in Android you can set animation speed to 0.5x or even turn them off entirely, it's an option in the developer settings. Apple would never let you do that.
  - beardbound 2y ago
    You can set them off in accessibility settings https://support.apple.com/guide/iphone/reduce-onscreen-motion-iph0b691d3ed/ios https://support.apple.com/guide/iphone/reduce-onscreen-motio.... I agree it's not something they make easy though. A lot of cool features/customization like that is in accessibility settings.
    - makeitdouble 2y ago
      On a side note, they (Google included) really should drop the "accessibility" naming. I don't know how much it made sense when it was to allow blind UI navigation (could have been a "navigation" or "interactions" setting). But nowadays with the amount of stuff in there, including permissions for password managers, animation reduction, audio EQ etc., it just makes less and less sense.
- sethjgore 2y ago
  I find that there’s always an option in accessibility settings to reduce the overall fanciness or anything that I find jarring on iOS. Here I believe settings > accessibility > reduce motion will apply. Nevertheless it’s nowhere near the powerful experience that was palm OS when it was selling palm pre and the like
bitsandboots 2y ago
Relative to when Microsoft intentionally sabotages user experience, sure, but that's a low bar. I'll agree with you more whenever macOS allows me to open more than 1 calculator window at a time, cut files, stop hijacking bluetooth when the lid is closed, and other productivity killing nuisances that make me question if they ever do user studies.
- philistine 2y ago
  - Our user studies for our trillion dollar company is out Mr. Cook.We can finally discover why we're not really seen as a luxury brand sir! - Please tell me, what's stopping us from being seen as a true luxury brand? - More than one calculator window.
- csh0 2y ago
  I was curious about the calculator comment, so I looked it up. The following terminal command supposedly does the trick: open -na Calculator
  - fragmede 2y ago
    if you're already on a computer, http://sheets.new http://sheets.new seems way more useful.
akimbostrawman 2y ago
I will think of this and laugh the next time i have to find a basic function that is hidden behind 10 submenus or just missing because apple does not respect its users intelligence/competence
- hulitu 2y ago
  > because apple does not respect its users intelligence/competence They copied the best. Looking at UI trends, nobody gives a shit about their users, they just want their data.
  - akimbostrawman 2y ago
    Just don't use proprietary spyware where you are the product

What's luxurious about Apple products is that they tend to respect your time

dismalaf 2y ago

Those are words without much meaning. So, how do you think they "respect" your time more than other smartphones?

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> how do you think they "respect" your time more than other smartphones? I have an iPhone. It just does its job. Updates in the background. Repairs are a peach, especially by mail. They don’t spam me.
- dismalaf 2y ago
  Updates in the background? It's not 2005 anymore... All phones do that. Androids have done that since version 1.0. Just works? Ditto. So the answer is just... vibes?
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    Partially yes, Android vs iPhone is largely vibes. The point is it’s a product that works for years without the user having to fuck with it too much for most use cases. If the hardware fits your needs, it’s the best in the world. If you like a 3.5mm jack, there are other options—hence why it’s tough to argue they have a smartphone monopoly. If you’re asking why it’s luxury, it’s a combination of the materials, machining and service experience. Luxury products aren’t necessarily better, certainly not for someone who can’t afford them. They’re simply more luxurious. Easier, more comfortable, et cetera.
    - dismalaf 2y ago
      This is the thing though. Non-Apple phones are made of equally nice materials, have equally nice design and equal or more utility. Several Samsung phones and the folding Pixel are more money than the top end iPhone. Hell, because of carrier subsidies the top end iPhone can be had for $0 up front. So what makes an iPhone more luxurious than say, a Galaxy S24 Ultra, Z Fold 6, Pixel 9 Pro XL or 9 Pro Fold?
      - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > Non-Apple phones are made of equally nice materials The machine quality is totally different. > what makes an iPhone more luxurious than say, a Galaxy S24 Ultra, Z Fold 6, Pixel 9 Pro XL or 9 Pro Fold Start with the BOM.
        dismalaf 2y ago
        Lol so it's the logo and marketing. Gotcha.
        JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        I mean yes, that’s a big part of what distinguishes luxury goods. Again, luxury doesn’t mean better. When I say machine quality, though, I’m referring to their titanium and aluminum. I’ve machined some aluminum and know people who have done titanium. It’s really hard, and they do it well. What does that add to the user experience? I can’t say it’s anything tangible. But I appreciate it. That’s luxury. It’s orthogonal to utility in many ways.
        whatisthiseven 2y ago
        I think when you say "luxury goods" you mean to say Veblen Goods, which are about signaling wealth or status through the purchase of a particular brand. When the functions of a good are divorced from its price and the brand is what defines "the luxury", it ceases to signal quality and instead is a signal all its own.

makeitdouble 2y ago

Does your time feel respected when you're leaving the Kindle app to open a web browser, search for the book that was next in the series, buy it, and get back to your Kindle app to continue reading ?

stogot 2y ago
Ouch, this just happened to me the other day and it was irritating that Apple forces other companies to force users to do a dance
- slowmovintarget 2y ago
  They don't force it. Amazon, for example, just doesn't want to pay the 30% platform cut. Understandable, but not force, just deterrence.
  - makeitdouble 2y ago
    By that token no company is forced to anything. For instance if the EU or the DOJ were to require Apple to change their policies, we could say Apple isn't forced to do so, as they still can refuse and "just" pay enormous fines until bankruptcy. I'm not sure what we would call "force" if we take that definition.
    - slowmovintarget 2y ago
      Force of law is different than fees in a walled garden. Fines are not the same as fees. Every player that does commerce on Apple's infrastructure pays fees to do so. Fines are punishment.
      - makeitdouble 2y ago
        While fines should be different, but in practice that line is either blurry or non existent depending on the circumstances. For instance if Apple had to pay a global total of 2 millions of fine every year for their AppStore policy, it would be rolled in as cost of doing business and they'd keep ignoring the rulings for decades. If Amazon only had minor punishment for breaking AppSore rules they'd do it yesterday. A binding contract is only as strong as its penalties, and in that regard we can see laws a form of contract and vice versa.

sofixa 2y ago

By giving you an endless spinning wheel instead of just telling you what the issue is? I've had this while trying to install apps on an iPad (you need a payment method if the free app you're downloading has extra paid stuff you could buy from it, but why would they need to tell you that) and with their TV+ service where downloading too many (how much? who knows) things at the same time, like you're about to board a long haul flight, gets them stuck in a loop without downloading. Another one of my favourites is "A USB device is consuming too much power, try disconnecting and reconnecting it" without any way of identifying which device it is.

fragmede 2y ago

Of all the things they do, that is not one of them. How long does it take from pressing a folder to showing its contents on iOS? How much faster would all of it be without a fancy fade in/out animation? or shrink to dock, or anything else in the UI that takes longer than it has to because it looks cooler that way.

satvikpendem 2y ago
It's funny because in Android you can set animation speed to 0.5x or even turn them off entirely, it's an option in the developer settings. Apple would never let you do that.
- beardbound 2y ago
  You can set them off in accessibility settings https://support.apple.com/guide/iphone/reduce-onscreen-motion-iph0b691d3ed/ios https://support.apple.com/guide/iphone/reduce-onscreen-motio.... I agree it's not something they make easy though. A lot of cool features/customization like that is in accessibility settings.
  - makeitdouble 2y ago
    On a side note, they (Google included) really should drop the "accessibility" naming. I don't know how much it made sense when it was to allow blind UI navigation (could have been a "navigation" or "interactions" setting). But nowadays with the amount of stuff in there, including permissions for password managers, animation reduction, audio EQ etc., it just makes less and less sense.
sethjgore 2y ago
I find that there’s always an option in accessibility settings to reduce the overall fanciness or anything that I find jarring on iOS. Here I believe settings > accessibility > reduce motion will apply. Nevertheless it’s nowhere near the powerful experience that was palm OS when it was selling palm pre and the like

bitsandboots 2y ago

Relative to when Microsoft intentionally sabotages user experience, sure, but that's a low bar. I'll agree with you more whenever macOS allows me to open more than 1 calculator window at a time, cut files, stop hijacking bluetooth when the lid is closed, and other productivity killing nuisances that make me question if they ever do user studies.

philistine 2y ago
- Our user studies for our trillion dollar company is out Mr. Cook.We can finally discover why we're not really seen as a luxury brand sir! - Please tell me, what's stopping us from being seen as a true luxury brand? - More than one calculator window.
csh0 2y ago
I was curious about the calculator comment, so I looked it up. The following terminal command supposedly does the trick: open -na Calculator
- fragmede 2y ago
  if you're already on a computer, http://sheets.new http://sheets.new seems way more useful.

akimbostrawman 2y ago

I will think of this and laugh the next time i have to find a basic function that is hidden behind 10 submenus or just missing because apple does not respect its users intelligence/competence

hulitu 2y ago
> because apple does not respect its users intelligence/competence They copied the best. Looking at UI trends, nobody gives a shit about their users, they just want their data.
- akimbostrawman 2y ago
  Just don't use proprietary spyware where you are the product