4 ms·

At my first company out of University, we found our app was being distributed on "piracy" versions of the Play Store, with all the IAPs bypassed and given for f

At my first company out of University, we found our app was being distributed on "piracy" versions of the Play Store, with all the IAPs bypassed and given for free. We spent months cracking down on it, and the end result was bugs in our detection system negatively affected our users, and I believe we also introduced a crash which hurt our Play Store ranking. I still remember having a meeting about it with the CEO, as we all collectively realized that blocking the free version of our app made no positive impact whatsoever.

anonym29 2y ago
The idea in industry that pirated copies represent "lost sales" is wishful thinking. The reality is, people who can afford to pay for media/apps/programs/books can and do; the people who pirate such digital goods overwhelmingly either cannot afford to purchase a legitimate copy, or simply wouldn't be interested in paying for it without knowing whether they'd like what they were getting, were a pirated copy not be available. Additionally, not all pirates are the selfish monsters that MPAA, RIAA, and friends would have you believe: many pirates, including several I know personally, use pirated media as a preview, and go on to pay for the content they actually enjoyed, yet wouldn't have done so without the option to pirate to know whether or not the media is worth the asking price to begin with. An MBA could be coaxed into admitting that in those cases, piracy actually creates sales that wouldn't have otherwise happened.
- doctorpangloss 2y ago
  Should Apple be the only ones allowed to make money? You can't pirate Apple News, iCloud Storage, all sorts of services and conventional media they provide. You can't pirate App Store IAP. You don't have to make a single value judgement to see that the status quo - the only permissible action to take against piracy is to make unassailable DRM - is really just conceding that the fully vertically integrated platforms ought to own anything. Surely it's not good that only Apple is allowed to make money.
  - BrenBarn 2y ago
    That's certainly the status quo. One remedy that comes immediately to mind is to simply ban vertically integrated platforms like that and forcibly break them up.
    - Cumpiler69 2y ago
      People here don't like to hear this, but that's the only realistic solution to the current big tech monopolies sucking all the air in the room and spawn-camping small players before they take off.
  - notpushkin 2y ago
    Those are services that depend on Apple servers. If you also make a service, others can’t pirate it (they’ll have to set up their own server, which means it’s not really your service now). Of course, this only works if you secure your server side properly. I remember using cracked versions of Wolfram Alpha for Android back in high school and those worked like a charm. I don’t think they lose a lot of revenue though.
  - vinay_ys 2y ago
    It takes a lot of effort to build a system that is both user-friendly and does implement sophisticated mechanisms to prevent bypassing permissions controls. Apple has taken the pains to do that well and then to maintain it against an unending barrage of attacks. So they deserve to make money.
  - nug 2y ago
    You can definitely pirate IAP. Back in the day it was as easy as using a proxy. Nowadays you need to inject 3rd party software into the app.
  - JSR_FDED 2y ago
    Wait, what? Apple is bad because they don’t provide a way for you to pirate content they sell?
- elevaet 2y ago
  For better or for worse, some people who can afford otherwise do piracy, out of protest. For example several people I know personally buy music exclusively on bandcamp. If it's not on there, they pirate it. No streaming, no iTunes etc.
- coldtea 2y ago
  >The idea in industry that pirated copies represent "lost sales" is wishful thinking. The idea that _all_ pirated copies represent "lost sales" is wishful thinking. But the idea that without piracy sales would be greater, sometimes substantially, because some pirated copies do represent "lost sales" is much more realistic though. The idea that piracy helps audiences find and then buy the stuff they like, is also, for the most part, wishful thinking. Even for stuff one likes, once they have it in pirated form, they have little to no incentive to buy it (except a small niche wanting to "own the physical product" like a collector, which can sometimes be the case for music and games, but not software in general).
  - graemep 2y ago
    > The idea that _all_ pirated copies represent "lost sales" is wishful thinking. I think it is more often something people have to pretend to believe in order to maximise damages in breach of copyright cases.
  - fsflover 2y ago
    EU paid for report that concluded piracy isn’t harmful, tried to hide findings (thenextweb.com) 280 points by tchalla on Sept 21, 2017 | 59 comments https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15305476 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15305476
    - amarcheschi 2y ago
      In some cases it is actually beneficial (videogames) (I'm not gonna read the study, just trusting what I read online) Study link https://felixreda.eu/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/displacement_study.pdf https://felixreda.eu/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/displacement...
    - Cumpiler69 2y ago
      >EU paid for report that concluded piracy isn’t harmful, tried to hide findings Intentionally hiding stuff the taxpayers paid for should be illegal and sanctioned with jail time. I'm tired by the lack of accountability our elected leaders have. "Oh shucks, seems like I accidentally and irrecoverably deleted all these emails between me and a CEO about a multi billion taxpayer funded contract; I'm such a klutz, hihi."
- 0dayz 2y ago
  There's a big difference between piracy as in free version vs parasitic piracy which is when you got someone selling the version that is pirated.
- JacketPotato 2y ago
  There are a few games that I have initially pirated, loved them, and then bought them off of steam!
qwertox 2y ago
In the 90s I downloaded tons of Warez. In the 00s I spent thousands of € in software which I properly evaluated and learned to use in the 90s.

anonym29 2y ago

The idea in industry that pirated copies represent "lost sales" is wishful thinking. The reality is, people who can afford to pay for media/apps/programs/books can and do; the people who pirate such digital goods overwhelmingly either cannot afford to purchase a legitimate copy, or simply wouldn't be interested in paying for it without knowing whether they'd like what they were getting, were a pirated copy not be available. Additionally, not all pirates are the selfish monsters that MPAA, RIAA, and friends would have you believe: many pirates, including several I know personally, use pirated media as a preview, and go on to pay for the content they actually enjoyed, yet wouldn't have done so without the option to pirate to know whether or not the media is worth the asking price to begin with. An MBA could be coaxed into admitting that in those cases, piracy actually creates sales that wouldn't have otherwise happened.

doctorpangloss 2y ago
Should Apple be the only ones allowed to make money? You can't pirate Apple News, iCloud Storage, all sorts of services and conventional media they provide. You can't pirate App Store IAP. You don't have to make a single value judgement to see that the status quo - the only permissible action to take against piracy is to make unassailable DRM - is really just conceding that the fully vertically integrated platforms ought to own anything. Surely it's not good that only Apple is allowed to make money.
- BrenBarn 2y ago
  That's certainly the status quo. One remedy that comes immediately to mind is to simply ban vertically integrated platforms like that and forcibly break them up.
  - Cumpiler69 2y ago
    People here don't like to hear this, but that's the only realistic solution to the current big tech monopolies sucking all the air in the room and spawn-camping small players before they take off.
- notpushkin 2y ago
  Those are services that depend on Apple servers. If you also make a service, others can’t pirate it (they’ll have to set up their own server, which means it’s not really your service now). Of course, this only works if you secure your server side properly. I remember using cracked versions of Wolfram Alpha for Android back in high school and those worked like a charm. I don’t think they lose a lot of revenue though.
- vinay_ys 2y ago
  It takes a lot of effort to build a system that is both user-friendly and does implement sophisticated mechanisms to prevent bypassing permissions controls. Apple has taken the pains to do that well and then to maintain it against an unending barrage of attacks. So they deserve to make money.
- nug 2y ago
  You can definitely pirate IAP. Back in the day it was as easy as using a proxy. Nowadays you need to inject 3rd party software into the app.
- JSR_FDED 2y ago
  Wait, what? Apple is bad because they don’t provide a way for you to pirate content they sell?
elevaet 2y ago
For better or for worse, some people who can afford otherwise do piracy, out of protest. For example several people I know personally buy music exclusively on bandcamp. If it's not on there, they pirate it. No streaming, no iTunes etc.
coldtea 2y ago
>The idea in industry that pirated copies represent "lost sales" is wishful thinking. The idea that _all_ pirated copies represent "lost sales" is wishful thinking. But the idea that without piracy sales would be greater, sometimes substantially, because some pirated copies do represent "lost sales" is much more realistic though. The idea that piracy helps audiences find and then buy the stuff they like, is also, for the most part, wishful thinking. Even for stuff one likes, once they have it in pirated form, they have little to no incentive to buy it (except a small niche wanting to "own the physical product" like a collector, which can sometimes be the case for music and games, but not software in general).
- graemep 2y ago
  > The idea that _all_ pirated copies represent "lost sales" is wishful thinking. I think it is more often something people have to pretend to believe in order to maximise damages in breach of copyright cases.
- fsflover 2y ago
  EU paid for report that concluded piracy isn’t harmful, tried to hide findings (thenextweb.com) 280 points by tchalla on Sept 21, 2017 | 59 comments https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15305476 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15305476
  - amarcheschi 2y ago
    In some cases it is actually beneficial (videogames) (I'm not gonna read the study, just trusting what I read online) Study link https://felixreda.eu/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/displacement_study.pdf https://felixreda.eu/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/displacement...
  - Cumpiler69 2y ago
    >EU paid for report that concluded piracy isn’t harmful, tried to hide findings Intentionally hiding stuff the taxpayers paid for should be illegal and sanctioned with jail time. I'm tired by the lack of accountability our elected leaders have. "Oh shucks, seems like I accidentally and irrecoverably deleted all these emails between me and a CEO about a multi billion taxpayer funded contract; I'm such a klutz, hihi."
0dayz 2y ago
There's a big difference between piracy as in free version vs parasitic piracy which is when you got someone selling the version that is pirated.
JacketPotato 2y ago
There are a few games that I have initially pirated, loved them, and then bought them off of steam!

qwertox 2y ago

In the 90s I downloaded tons of Warez. In the 00s I spent thousands of € in software which I properly evaluated and learned to use in the 90s.