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As Cardinal Richelieu famously said, “if you give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest of men, I will find something in them which will hang him.

As Cardinal Richelieu famously said, “if you give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest of men, I will find something in them which will hang him.”

lesuorac 2y ago
But you won't be able to _only_ use 6 lines from honest men. Their lawyer will produce the other ~300 lines of context.
snowwrestler 2y ago
This quote is frequently misinterpreted. It is not a comment on the mutability of language in general, it is a comment on centralized authoritarian power, which the Cardinal sought and wielded. Because he personally wielded so much power, he needed only the flimsiest excuse to condemn someone. The U.S. legal system does not empower prosecutors in this way. They are free to provide quotes out of context, of course, but defense counsel are just as free to provide the missing context, and neither actually gets to make the decision to convict.
- philwelch 2y ago
  Don’t underestimate a federal prosecutor. Perhaps we need a new saying: “If you give me six lines from the US Code, I can get a plea bargain from the most honest of men.”
  - smsm42 2y ago
    In this case, hiding your chats is not exactly going to help you. If anything, it will be showing up prominently in the list of charges against you as destruction of evidence and impeding investigation.
    - dredmorbius 2y ago
      For criminal actions in the US, at the least, what you do say can be held against you. What you don't say cannot, and what communications you destroy (as part of an ongoing general "document management" policy, not as a specific response to a lawful demand for records) cannot. However if you phrase your document management policy as "apply these guidelines so that our illegal activity cannot be documented by us as illegal" you will be having a Bad Day should that policy come before a prosecutor, Grand Jury, or court.
smsm42 2y ago
Good thing we're not in the absolutist monarchy now, and have such things as courts and laws.
dredmorbius 2y ago
NB: That's attributed to Richelieu, and AFAIK it's not something specifically that he said, though it seems to be in the spirit of much of his practice. Something of which I'm aware as I've featured precisely that quote on a number of my profiles across the Internet under this 'nym.

As Cardinal Richelieu famously said, “if you give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest of men, I will find something in them which will hang him.”

lesuorac 2y ago

But you won't be able to _only_ use 6 lines from honest men. Their lawyer will produce the other ~300 lines of context.

snowwrestler 2y ago

This quote is frequently misinterpreted. It is not a comment on the mutability of language in general, it is a comment on centralized authoritarian power, which the Cardinal sought and wielded. Because he personally wielded so much power, he needed only the flimsiest excuse to condemn someone. The U.S. legal system does not empower prosecutors in this way. They are free to provide quotes out of context, of course, but defense counsel are just as free to provide the missing context, and neither actually gets to make the decision to convict.

philwelch 2y ago
Don’t underestimate a federal prosecutor. Perhaps we need a new saying: “If you give me six lines from the US Code, I can get a plea bargain from the most honest of men.”
- smsm42 2y ago
  In this case, hiding your chats is not exactly going to help you. If anything, it will be showing up prominently in the list of charges against you as destruction of evidence and impeding investigation.
  - dredmorbius 2y ago
    For criminal actions in the US, at the least, what you do say can be held against you. What you don't say cannot, and what communications you destroy (as part of an ongoing general "document management" policy, not as a specific response to a lawful demand for records) cannot. However if you phrase your document management policy as "apply these guidelines so that our illegal activity cannot be documented by us as illegal" you will be having a Bad Day should that policy come before a prosecutor, Grand Jury, or court.

smsm42 2y ago

Good thing we're not in the absolutist monarchy now, and have such things as courts and laws.

dredmorbius 2y ago

NB: That's attributed to Richelieu, and AFAIK it's not something specifically that he said, though it seems to be in the spirit of much of his practice. Something of which I'm aware as I've featured precisely that quote on a number of my profiles across the Internet under this 'nym.