3 ms·

A Lithium fire battery in a cruise ship in the middle of the Pacific would be a truly unique experience.

by elzbardico 2y ago

mcswell 2y ago
Almost as bad as a fuel oil fire on a cruise ship.
- Polizeiposaune 2y ago
  Lithium batteries are more prone to self-immolation/thermal runaway; heavy fuel oils aren't prone to spontaneous ignition at typical temperatures & pressures.
  - beedeebeedee 2y ago
    Use lithium ferrophosphate instead- no fire
  - 1234letshaveatw 2y ago
    I would think that preventative measures would be much easier to realize on big ships with lower density demands
  - EricE 2y ago
    Furthermore, oil fires can be extinguished by water and/or CO2 - Lithium battery fires can't be smothered and require exponentially more water to bring under control (producing copious amounts of heavily contaminated water too). And once put out can easily re-ignite.
- elzbardico 2y ago
  There's no need to lie. Lithium battery fires are a fucking nightmare.
samplatt 2y ago
There's hope that sodium-ion tech will come to the rescue, here. The energy-density is bordering on 'good enough' but it's not quite there, yet. There's other technologies that they're trialing for boats that seem silly but works on paper at least. We're currently building a ferry with a massive flywheel to store lots of rotational inertia to convert to electricity, which on the face of it is bonkers but again, the maths says it's good.
- AtlasBarfed 2y ago
  I am counting my chickens before they hatch, but sulfur chemistries should help quite a lot. Same abundance of materials, 2x to 3x the energy density. It's my impression that a lot of sulfur and other "advanced" chemistries are held up by operating restrictions like temperature for consumer vehicles, but industrial transport vehicles might not have such requirements because they have constant output.
euroderf 2y ago
Is LFP an option ? Thermal runaway, O2 venting, they go away AFAICT.
DanielHB 2y ago
The ship would need to be designed around it, but the battery could be set up in a way to allow it to burn out without affecting the rest of the ship at all, it is not that hard to isolate a battery from the rest of the system. Although it would be better if the battery is at the bottom of the ship so there would also need to be some sort of air exhaust system for when that happens, hopefully one that prevents the fumes from reaching the passengers at all but I don't think that would be possible without a chimney.

A Lithium fire battery in a cruise ship in the middle of the Pacific would be a truly unique experience.

mcswell 2y ago

Almost as bad as a fuel oil fire on a cruise ship.

Polizeiposaune 2y ago
Lithium batteries are more prone to self-immolation/thermal runaway; heavy fuel oils aren't prone to spontaneous ignition at typical temperatures & pressures.
- beedeebeedee 2y ago
  Use lithium ferrophosphate instead- no fire
- 1234letshaveatw 2y ago
  I would think that preventative measures would be much easier to realize on big ships with lower density demands
- EricE 2y ago
  Furthermore, oil fires can be extinguished by water and/or CO2 - Lithium battery fires can't be smothered and require exponentially more water to bring under control (producing copious amounts of heavily contaminated water too). And once put out can easily re-ignite.
elzbardico 2y ago
There's no need to lie. Lithium battery fires are a fucking nightmare.

samplatt 2y ago

There's hope that sodium-ion tech will come to the rescue, here. The energy-density is bordering on 'good enough' but it's not quite there, yet. There's other technologies that they're trialing for boats that seem silly but works on paper at least. We're currently building a ferry with a massive flywheel to store lots of rotational inertia to convert to electricity, which on the face of it is bonkers but again, the maths says it's good.

AtlasBarfed 2y ago
I am counting my chickens before they hatch, but sulfur chemistries should help quite a lot. Same abundance of materials, 2x to 3x the energy density. It's my impression that a lot of sulfur and other "advanced" chemistries are held up by operating restrictions like temperature for consumer vehicles, but industrial transport vehicles might not have such requirements because they have constant output.

euroderf 2y ago

Is LFP an option ? Thermal runaway, O2 venting, they go away AFAICT.

DanielHB 2y ago

The ship would need to be designed around it, but the battery could be set up in a way to allow it to burn out without affecting the rest of the ship at all, it is not that hard to isolate a battery from the rest of the system. Although it would be better if the battery is at the bottom of the ship so there would also need to be some sort of air exhaust system for when that happens, hopefully one that prevents the fumes from reaching the passengers at all but I don't think that would be possible without a chimney.