3 ms·

Doesn't matter if your overall profit is higher. Which it is unless you're a very bad programmer.

bdangubic 2y ago
Did you put this on paper? this is why I saw it is a misconception, everyone is just talking but if you put it on paper and actually do the math... I earn in the low $800's per year and would probably make 3/5's of that if I was in Europe, the math doesn't work out that I am better off in the US. It is just that my wife doesn't want to move that I am still here :)
- thrw42A8N 2y ago
  480k per year in Europe? That's totally crazy. Where? I have never seen anyone claiming to make more than cca 200k, maybe 300k around here.
  - bdangubic 2y ago
    that is because they slave on "W2's" - I have been contracting with 2005-ish... on a "W2" it'd be (A LOT) harder but probably doable if you find the right spot. EU has a TON of money for small business, especially if you live in not-so-rich places (balkans, etc...) so doing contracting or starting a small 5-6 people dev shop is not out of reach for most talented and business-savvy devs
    - thrw42A8N 2y ago
      Sure. That's very different from coasting at a FAANG though. And living in the Balkans is nothing like living in Bay Area, LA, NYC etc. I don't think it's comparable. But of course - do what is best for you. If this is your situation and you like living in the Balkans, go for it. I love the place myself. Overall though, I don't think this is the safe, easy, simple route. That's moving to the US and grinding some leetcode, not learning the basics of Balkan business culture and EU business regulations. I wouldn't recommend that to anyone who doesn't know very well what it takes - usually by going to a business school or having few years of business experience in EU - elsewhere doesn't count, it's much easier elsewhere. (I have experience exactly with what you suggest, to be clear. I had to stop doing that and go back to a much simpler and less risky principal engineering / SW engineering management job, as the stress and unclear/anti-business regulations were killing me.)
      - bdangubic 2y ago
        I don't disagree with a single thing you wrote... I am still though sticking with my original comment that it is a big misconception that you are better off financially in US vs. EU (I won't mention non-financial things as that would be unfair and not-even-remotely-fair contest between EU and US) working in the US than EU. I think we focus on gross pay (in US people even talk salary BEFORE taxes which is absolute insanity, like "I make $300k - no you don't you make about 1/2 that depending on where you live, in EU when someone tells you then make $200k they mean that is how much money is deposited into their bank that year...) and not in terms of "real earnings" - very few people that make US > EU claims actually do some math...
        thrw42A8N 2y ago
        Sorry but I have never heard about people's net pay. It's always gross. Everyone has their own combination of tax deductions and benefits, it makes zero sense to talk about net pay - everyone is gonna have something different. And from employer's side, I can't simply tell you what your wage will be in net - that's usually different month by month, depending on your family and housing situation, health/fitness benefits, education status etc. That's why business is so hard here - I had to maintain an army of accountants to do a small simple business...
        bdangubic 2y ago
        my sister lives in Europe and so does most of my family. they do not EVEN KNOW what their pre-tax pay is!!! when she interviews and does salary negotiations the number she gets is the number that will deposited into her bank account that will be at her disposal. several years ago my sister needed a visa to go to UK and they actually asked for this - part of the paperwork was asking for her pre-tax earnings. it took her about a week to figure out where she could get this from...
        thrw42A8N 2y ago
        I don't believe that. It's EU regulation to provide this information. It's featured prominently in all job related communication everywhere in EU. Your sister simply doesn't care and might be leaving a lot of money on the table. This is not representative of EU people.

Did you put this on paper? this is why I saw it is a misconception, everyone is just talking but if you put it on paper and actually do the math... I earn in the low $800's per year and would probably make 3/5's of that if I was in Europe, the math doesn't work out that I am better off in the US. It is just that my wife doesn't want to move that I am still here :)

thrw42A8N 2y ago
480k per year in Europe? That's totally crazy. Where? I have never seen anyone claiming to make more than cca 200k, maybe 300k around here.
- bdangubic 2y ago
  that is because they slave on "W2's" - I have been contracting with 2005-ish... on a "W2" it'd be (A LOT) harder but probably doable if you find the right spot. EU has a TON of money for small business, especially if you live in not-so-rich places (balkans, etc...) so doing contracting or starting a small 5-6 people dev shop is not out of reach for most talented and business-savvy devs
  - thrw42A8N 2y ago
    Sure. That's very different from coasting at a FAANG though. And living in the Balkans is nothing like living in Bay Area, LA, NYC etc. I don't think it's comparable. But of course - do what is best for you. If this is your situation and you like living in the Balkans, go for it. I love the place myself. Overall though, I don't think this is the safe, easy, simple route. That's moving to the US and grinding some leetcode, not learning the basics of Balkan business culture and EU business regulations. I wouldn't recommend that to anyone who doesn't know very well what it takes - usually by going to a business school or having few years of business experience in EU - elsewhere doesn't count, it's much easier elsewhere. (I have experience exactly with what you suggest, to be clear. I had to stop doing that and go back to a much simpler and less risky principal engineering / SW engineering management job, as the stress and unclear/anti-business regulations were killing me.)
    - bdangubic 2y ago
      I don't disagree with a single thing you wrote... I am still though sticking with my original comment that it is a big misconception that you are better off financially in US vs. EU (I won't mention non-financial things as that would be unfair and not-even-remotely-fair contest between EU and US) working in the US than EU. I think we focus on gross pay (in US people even talk salary BEFORE taxes which is absolute insanity, like "I make $300k - no you don't you make about 1/2 that depending on where you live, in EU when someone tells you then make $200k they mean that is how much money is deposited into their bank that year...) and not in terms of "real earnings" - very few people that make US > EU claims actually do some math...
      - thrw42A8N 2y ago
        Sorry but I have never heard about people's net pay. It's always gross. Everyone has their own combination of tax deductions and benefits, it makes zero sense to talk about net pay - everyone is gonna have something different. And from employer's side, I can't simply tell you what your wage will be in net - that's usually different month by month, depending on your family and housing situation, health/fitness benefits, education status etc. That's why business is so hard here - I had to maintain an army of accountants to do a small simple business...
        bdangubic 2y ago
        my sister lives in Europe and so does most of my family. they do not EVEN KNOW what their pre-tax pay is!!! when she interviews and does salary negotiations the number she gets is the number that will deposited into her bank account that will be at her disposal. several years ago my sister needed a visa to go to UK and they actually asked for this - part of the paperwork was asking for her pre-tax earnings. it took her about a week to figure out where she could get this from...
        thrw42A8N 2y ago
        I don't believe that. It's EU regulation to provide this information. It's featured prominently in all job related communication everywhere in EU. Your sister simply doesn't care and might be leaving a lot of money on the table. This is not representative of EU people.