5 ms·

I know, i am using transitions/gradients on my project and i have to write 5(!) different rules just to set one property. This is for production code. backgr

by Achshar 14y ago

I know, i am using transitions/gradients on my project and i have to write 5(!) different rules just to set one property. This is for production code. background: -webkit-linear-gradient(#fff, #fdd 75%, #fcc); background: -moz-linear-gradient(#fff, #fdd 75%, #fcc); background: -ms-linear-gradient(#fff, #fdd 75%, #fcc); background: -o-linear-gradient(#fff, #fdd 75%, #fcc); background: linear-gradient(#fff, #fdd 75%, #fcc); And this is used every time i have to set a gradient. I really wish there were some better options than prefixes. I am not surprised at all if developers move to supporting just webkit. This is a lot of work and maintaining. And without css variables, it is a mess to change a color. It is very tempting to just use the -webkit- version and probably a non prefixed one for future compatibility. 2 is far better than 5. Edit: And i should mention, this is not a mobile website, it's a desktop site.

TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago
Yeah. And that's without supporting older versions of syntax. You might need another 2 or 3 lines if you're unlucky, or possibly worse. Many people including myself think prefixes should be eliminated entirely[1], or replaced with a single prefix for the experimental[2]. [1] http://paulirish.com/2012/vendor-prefixes-are-not-developer-friendly/ http://paulirish.com/2012/vendor-prefixes-are-not-developer-... [2] http://www.quirksmode.org/blog/archives/2010/03/css_vendor_pref_1.html http://www.quirksmode.org/blog/archives/2010/03/css_vendor_p...
ars 14y ago
Missed one: background: -webkit-gradient(linear, 0 0, 0 100%, from(#fff) color-stop(75%, #fdd) to(#fcc)); (I hope I got that syntax right.) This one should go above webkit-linear-gradient. And it's also an example of why prefixes were invented - the syntax is totally different. I think vendors should unprefix the moment their prefix matches the spec.
- cleverjake 14y ago
  >>I think vendors should unprefix the moment their prefix matches the spec. most of the time when all prefixed version are the same it means there isn't a CR for the spec, and it is therefore in flux. unprefixing it would mean sites would break if and when it is changed before reaching recommendation.
  - ars 14y ago
    Don't know what "CR" is (community recommendation?), but obviously I mean once the spec is finalized, not just when the spec is proposed.
    - robin_reala 14y ago
      Candidate Recommendation; the state of a W3 recommendation where they call for vendor implementations.
    - cleverjake 14y ago
      and as I said, this is not the case for most things that are prefixed.
  - TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago
    They would break anyway, what's your point?
Natsu 14y ago
Why not uses SASS and let mixins do that crap?
- Achshar 14y ago
  It's probably just me but I don't use libraries and secondary "languages" that compile to another language (in web development context). So no jquery, coffeescript, SASS, LESS, pIE etc. I don't feel satisfied when my code's efficiency/speed depends on some one else's code. It somehow means i am not in full control of things. I like to keep dependencies to a minimum. Which basically means I don't want to include any files in my webpage that are not written by me. (Google Analytics is an exception though) It's kind of an obsession really, to the point that I furiously try not to use any third party library unless absolutely needed. And I haven't needed one until now. And I have also yet to regret these decisions.
  - TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago
    I use CoffeeScript, but I'm reluctant to use SASS or LESS, since they are ugly and I generally want to avoid having to use software to manipulate my HTML/CSS content. I'm fine with JS, but I like my compile script only having to copy my index.html and style.css file across, not having to invoke a CSS compiler.
    - Achshar 14y ago
      The CSS compilers really dont make much sense to me. The language is very easy/simple as is (vendor prefixes are a mess though) and having a compiler's overhead on every request does not feel right to me. I love JS though, in fact it's my favorite go to language for all kinds of work, heavy duty or light. I thinks that is also a part of the reason I am not inclined towards languages that compile to JS, they kind of destroy the experience of writing JS, which I am very fond of.
      - TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago
        What request overhead? I thought people used them when developing and pushed the compiled result to the server. And I love JS too, but I use CoffeeScript since it's basically syntactic sugar for JS that saves me some keystrokes and makes my code more readable.
tomjen3 14y ago
Why include the MS prefix? the only browser that support is not yet in production and will presumably unprefix it before it ships.
- Achshar 14y ago
  The project i am working on needs IE support, and i won't be making big changes to code once it has been deployed. It's a contract based work and not employment. So if it is not unprefixed by august, i will still have support for the browser.
  - tomjen3 14y ago
    Not really, unless you only contracted to support IE 10. There is a proprietary filter property that works on previous versions IE.
zobzu 14y ago
"I am not surprised at all if developers move to supporting just webkit." that's why Mozilla is unprefixing IMO. But yep, so much for standards.
erikb 14y ago
Your comment actually explains to me, what I didn't know without CSS experience: What this post is actually about.
cpeterso 14y ago
Does WebKit implement unprefixed property names alongside -webkit- prefixed names?
- Achshar 14y ago
  For some properties, it does, for others, not yet. It just depends on how stable the spec it.
Karunamon 14y ago
Looks like this is begging for a macro. Write it once, highlight, ctrl+something, the other specific versions are automatically created in place.
- neotek 14y ago
  I recently switched to Sublime Text[1] as my editor of choice, and one of the available packages is a macro that runs CSS blocks through prefixr[2]. It's been an absolute godsend (and Sublime Text in general is ... sublime.) [1] http://www.sublimetext.com/ http://www.sublimetext.com/ [2] http://prefixr.com/ http://prefixr.com/

by Achshar 14y ago

TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago

Yeah. And that's without supporting older versions of syntax. You might need another 2 or 3 lines if you're unlucky, or possibly worse. Many people including myself think prefixes should be eliminated entirely[1], or replaced with a single prefix for the experimental[2]. [1] http://paulirish.com/2012/vendor-prefixes-are-not-developer-friendly/ http://paulirish.com/2012/vendor-prefixes-are-not-developer-... [2] http://www.quirksmode.org/blog/archives/2010/03/css_vendor_pref_1.html http://www.quirksmode.org/blog/archives/2010/03/css_vendor_p...

ars 14y ago

Missed one: background: -webkit-gradient(linear, 0 0, 0 100%, from(#fff) color-stop(75%, #fdd) to(#fcc)); (I hope I got that syntax right.) This one should go above webkit-linear-gradient. And it's also an example of why prefixes were invented - the syntax is totally different. I think vendors should unprefix the moment their prefix matches the spec.

cleverjake 14y ago
>>I think vendors should unprefix the moment their prefix matches the spec. most of the time when all prefixed version are the same it means there isn't a CR for the spec, and it is therefore in flux. unprefixing it would mean sites would break if and when it is changed before reaching recommendation.
- ars 14y ago
  Don't know what "CR" is (community recommendation?), but obviously I mean once the spec is finalized, not just when the spec is proposed.
  - robin_reala 14y ago
    Candidate Recommendation; the state of a W3 recommendation where they call for vendor implementations.
  - cleverjake 14y ago
    and as I said, this is not the case for most things that are prefixed.
- TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago
  They would break anyway, what's your point?

Natsu 14y ago

Why not uses SASS and let mixins do that crap?

Achshar 14y ago
It's probably just me but I don't use libraries and secondary "languages" that compile to another language (in web development context). So no jquery, coffeescript, SASS, LESS, pIE etc. I don't feel satisfied when my code's efficiency/speed depends on some one else's code. It somehow means i am not in full control of things. I like to keep dependencies to a minimum. Which basically means I don't want to include any files in my webpage that are not written by me. (Google Analytics is an exception though) It's kind of an obsession really, to the point that I furiously try not to use any third party library unless absolutely needed. And I haven't needed one until now. And I have also yet to regret these decisions.
- TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago
  I use CoffeeScript, but I'm reluctant to use SASS or LESS, since they are ugly and I generally want to avoid having to use software to manipulate my HTML/CSS content. I'm fine with JS, but I like my compile script only having to copy my index.html and style.css file across, not having to invoke a CSS compiler.
  - Achshar 14y ago
    The CSS compilers really dont make much sense to me. The language is very easy/simple as is (vendor prefixes are a mess though) and having a compiler's overhead on every request does not feel right to me. I love JS though, in fact it's my favorite go to language for all kinds of work, heavy duty or light. I thinks that is also a part of the reason I am not inclined towards languages that compile to JS, they kind of destroy the experience of writing JS, which I am very fond of.
    - TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago
      What request overhead? I thought people used them when developing and pushed the compiled result to the server. And I love JS too, but I use CoffeeScript since it's basically syntactic sugar for JS that saves me some keystrokes and makes my code more readable.

tomjen3 14y ago

Why include the MS prefix? the only browser that support is not yet in production and will presumably unprefix it before it ships.

Achshar 14y ago
The project i am working on needs IE support, and i won't be making big changes to code once it has been deployed. It's a contract based work and not employment. So if it is not unprefixed by august, i will still have support for the browser.
- tomjen3 14y ago
  Not really, unless you only contracted to support IE 10. There is a proprietary filter property that works on previous versions IE.

zobzu 14y ago

"I am not surprised at all if developers move to supporting just webkit." that's why Mozilla is unprefixing IMO. But yep, so much for standards.

erikb 14y ago

Your comment actually explains to me, what I didn't know without CSS experience: What this post is actually about.

cpeterso 14y ago

Does WebKit implement unprefixed property names alongside -webkit- prefixed names?

Achshar 14y ago
For some properties, it does, for others, not yet. It just depends on how stable the spec it.

Karunamon 14y ago

Looks like this is begging for a macro. Write it once, highlight, ctrl+something, the other specific versions are automatically created in place.

neotek 14y ago
I recently switched to Sublime Text[1] as my editor of choice, and one of the available packages is a macro that runs CSS blocks through prefixr[2]. It's been an absolute godsend (and Sublime Text in general is ... sublime.) [1] http://www.sublimetext.com/ http://www.sublimetext.com/ [2] http://prefixr.com/ http://prefixr.com/