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How can people keep repeating the russian talking point that equates helping Ukraine resist the invasion with "extending the suffering". Don't they know what ki

How can people keep repeating the russian talking point that equates helping Ukraine resist the invasion with "extending the suffering". Don't they know what kind of hell the occupied regions have become? One can't pretend not to understand that the ultimate russian goal is complete annexation and assimilation, which by the way will provide ample cannon fodder for the next war of conquest. I can't take in good faith this whole "suffering" rhetorics -- not containing the imperialistic expansionist nuclear-armed empire is sure to bring more suffering to the world.

Dalewyn 2y ago
I think you're not understanding the whole argument: We're not helping Ukraine defend themselves, we're not containing the "imperialistic expansionist nuclear-armed empire". If we were then this war would have ended long ago and we wouldn't be having this conversation and Trump probably wouldn't have been elected. No, I am angry because our response has been halfassed and lukewarm. We are keeping the war going with no end in sight, my tax dollars are being used explicitly to extend human suffering rather than end it. Sincerely fuck that noise. Either we go all in or do nothing at all, the current timeline is the worst one we could have possibly chosen.
- dagenleg 2y ago
  Yes, I'm definitely not following your argument. You're claiming that keeping the war going is extending the human suffering, while pushing Ukraine towards losing it would somehow end the suffering. That's false. Ukraine under russian occupation would be hell, and Ukrainians know it very well - that's why they are still fighting for survival.
  - Dalewyn 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - aguaviva 2y ago
      If that is still hard for you to understand, ... Howabout saying "If it helps, ..." instead.
    - dagenleg 2y ago
      You are purposely ignoring the point I am making - the suffering WILL NOT end if the war ends. It will become much worse in fact. The only outcome of the aid stopping is the complete conquest of the country, one has to be completely blind or a shill to trust any treaty at this point. I think the current anemic levels of support are insufficient, and the restrictions imposed on Ukraine in the name of "escalation management" are outright criminal, but even this level support is better than nothing. We are talking about war of extermination here.

Dalewyn 2y ago

I think you're not understanding the whole argument: We're not helping Ukraine defend themselves, we're not containing the "imperialistic expansionist nuclear-armed empire". If we were then this war would have ended long ago and we wouldn't be having this conversation and Trump probably wouldn't have been elected. No, I am angry because our response has been halfassed and lukewarm. We are keeping the war going with no end in sight, my tax dollars are being used explicitly to extend human suffering rather than end it. Sincerely fuck that noise. Either we go all in or do nothing at all, the current timeline is the worst one we could have possibly chosen.

dagenleg 2y ago
Yes, I'm definitely not following your argument. You're claiming that keeping the war going is extending the human suffering, while pushing Ukraine towards losing it would somehow end the suffering. That's false. Ukraine under russian occupation would be hell, and Ukrainians know it very well - that's why they are still fighting for survival.
- Dalewyn 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - aguaviva 2y ago
    If that is still hard for you to understand, ... Howabout saying "If it helps, ..." instead.
  - dagenleg 2y ago
    You are purposely ignoring the point I am making - the suffering WILL NOT end if the war ends. It will become much worse in fact. The only outcome of the aid stopping is the complete conquest of the country, one has to be completely blind or a shill to trust any treaty at this point. I think the current anemic levels of support are insufficient, and the restrictions imposed on Ukraine in the name of "escalation management" are outright criminal, but even this level support is better than nothing. We are talking about war of extermination here.