5 ms·

Started looking and found out there's some much worse, and far more obvious cases that need to implement these reforms. [1] UPenn is THE most obvious. Sitting

by araes 2y ago

Started looking and found out there's some much worse, and far more obvious cases that need to implement these reforms. [1] UPenn is THE most obvious. Sitting on a $20,000,000,000 endowment fund that went up +170% over 10 years while Philadelphia rots with drug use, poverty, and gun violence. BTW, amazing site to be horrified by gun violence (and vaguely fascinated). Look upon the awfulness of Philadelphia. [2] Sitting in their safe little haven while East and South is wounding murder land with overlapping murder / wounding statistics. (12k from 2014-2023, 190/100000 urban) [3] Northwestern and the violence everywhere South in Chi-town is maybe a personal second choice. ($13,700,000,000, +74%, 26.9k, 280/100000 urban) [4][5] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_colleges_and_universities_in_the_United_States_by_endowment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_colleges_and_universit... [2] (Guns, Philadelphia) https://www.thetrace.org/2023/02/gun-violence-map-america-shootings/?place=Philadelphia-Pennsylvania https://www.thetrace.org/2023/02/gun-violence-map-america-sh... [3] (Location, UPenn) https://www.google.com/maps/place/University+of+Pennsylvania/@39.9352876,-75.1739704,14067m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x89c6c65a7f3bccc1:0x9eaa6a2b2d6fe94!8m2!3d39.9515013!4d-75.1910161!16zL20vMDd0ZHM?hl=en&entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MTExNy4wIKXMDSoJLDEwMjExMjMzSAFQAw%3D%3D https://www.google.com/maps/place/University+of+Pennsylvania... [4] (Guns, Chicago) https://www.thetrace.org/2023/02/gun-violence-map-america-shootings/?place=Chicago-Illinois https://www.thetrace.org/2023/02/gun-violence-map-america-sh... [5] (Location, Northwestern) https://www.google.com/maps/place/Northwestern+University/@41.9057033,-87.7756436,62770m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x880fd00b703e4c39:0x2c37b567fad56106!8m2!3d42.0564594!4d-87.675267!16zL20vMDE3ajY5?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MTExNy4wIKXMDSoJLDEwMjExMjMzSAFQAw%3D%3D https://www.google.com/maps/place/Northwestern+University/@4...

Slava_Propanei 2y ago
[dead]
nadermx 2y ago
Thetrace.org is in fact pretty sweet looking. Interesting that philly seems to be shot to injur and next door camden seems to be shoot to kill.
njtransit 2y ago
What is the argument here, exactly?
ciupicri 2y ago
So if a university has money, learning there should be free? If you don't have guns, you won't have gun violence, but I guess the second amendment won't be changed any time soon.
- tdeck 2y ago
  > So if a university has money, learning there should be free? Not an unreasonable proposition. The purpose of the university is ostensibly to provide an education, not to continue hoarding more and more money.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > purpose of the university is ostensibly to provide an education One of the purposes. They’re also centres for learning and research and repositories of knowledge.
    - beeboobaa6 2y ago
      Also known as education
      - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > Also known as education No. There are non-teaching research universities. Many universities have non-teaching faculty. Learning != teaching != education.
        deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
    - tdeck 2y ago
      If they were spending the money on those things, this might be an argument. But they're not spending it; they're hoarding it.
readthenotes1 2y ago
You left off (Drugs) https://www.cbsnews.com/philadelphia/news/mexico-depicts-philadelphia-street-scenes-in-anti-drug-ads/ https://www.cbsnews.com/philadelphia/news/mexico-depicts-phi...
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
rs999gti 2y ago
> UPenn is THE most obvious. Sitting on a $20,000,000,000 endowment fund that went up +170% over 10 years while Philadelphia rots with drug use, poverty, and gun violence. Why is it UPENN's responsibility to solve these issues? This is Philadelphia's problem, the university is just a business operating in the city.
- bradchris 2y ago
  I think that speaks to the low bar we have come to expect from our endowed institutions today more than anything else. American Universities, historically, are supposed to improve not just their students’ lives but also society as a whole, especially as serving as boosters for the city they’re in and their immediate neighbors. That’s why they’re nonprofits. That’s also likely their strongest lifeline to remain relevant in the future rather than as the hollow alumni clubs and gatekeepers their critics say they are, with AI/the internet/online schooling/topic of the day breaking down socioeconomic barriers to knowledge access That’s why the Carnegies and Mellons built libraries, museums, and the very literally named Carnegie-Mellon university, back then. Now it seems like the first thing billionaires today do is isolate themselves and their wealth from the masses as much as possible.
  - Slava_Propanei 2y ago
    [dead]
  - jjmarr 2y ago
    > That’s why the Carnegies and Mellons built libraries, museums, and the very literally named Carnegie-Mellon university, back then. Now it seems like the first thing billionaires today do is isolate themselves and their wealth from the masses as much as possible. Historically speaking, wealth accumulation was borderline impossible because the incentive to steal it was so large. You had to become a king, and then constantly murder people trying to take the throne, because everyone had the attitude that the only way to acquire wealth was to steal it from others. And that never really worked out well since the king was always threatened by death (the Sword of Damocles). This stopped when the upper classes realized it was cheaper and more effective to raise the living standard of everyone else than it is to prevent everyone else from stealing their wealth. When you create wealth, you share some of it with others. In other words, create a society where everyone has salt and pepper, rather than try to hoard salt/pepper for financial gain. That's true of schooling as well. In the Middle Ages, only the rich and powerful could read and write. Now that everyone knows how to read, Facebook has a trillion-dollar business selling words. This mentality is present in FOSS to some extent, but it isn't present for education anymore. Everyone seems to think good universities are a perpetually limited good, so we fight over limited admissions spots rather than figure out a way to deliver high quality education to the masses. It's stupid, because bumping up the difficulty is how we make education worthwhile.
janalsncm 2y ago
Is there a coherent argument tying A to B here? Schools have large endowments and are also sometimes located in violent cities. Is it your contention that one causes the other, or even could in theory affect the other? Otherwise I don’t see the point, you might as well bring up the number of potholes in Philadelphia too. Also Northwestern is in Evanston, not Chicago. Two different cities.
- tossandthrow 2y ago
  This is inequality - allowing some entities to accrue out of the world wealth while others starve. The US has the philosophical stance that this is accepted. However, history shows that is is a balance that will collapse into civil war eventually if allowed to skew to far.
tzs 2y ago
They are not sitting on it. They spend about 5% of it annually.
quickthrowman 2y ago
> UPenn is THE most obvious. Sitting on a $20,000,000,000 endowment fund that went up +170% over 10 years while Philadelphia rots with drug use, poverty, and gun violence. Endowments have strings attached that limits the use of funds, the endowed money isn’t just a general slush fund: https://www.acenet.edu/Documents/Understanding-College-and-University-Endowments.pdf https://www.acenet.edu/Documents/Understanding-College-and-U... Also, an endowment is meant to be perpetual, so only a small fraction of it is spent every year to ensure the principal amount doesn’t go down. “Don’t kill the golden goose” in other words.
mbil 2y ago
Just want to point out that Philadelphia’s homicide count is down ~40% from last year. And Penn’s “haven” looks similar to the other affluent commercial corridors throughout the city.
- araes 2y ago
  That's actually fair. Philly's 2022 numbers were 503 murders / 1793 woundings, and 2023 numbers were 422 murders / 1376 woundings. 84% murders / 76.5% woundings. Definitely trending in a better direction. If the 2024 numbers arrive and Philly's still looking better than maybe things are changing for the positive in that area.
leetcrew 2y ago
philadelphia rots? please. I grew up in baltimore. philly is not what a rotting city looks like.

by araes 2y ago

Slava_Propanei 2y ago

[dead]

nadermx 2y ago

Thetrace.org is in fact pretty sweet looking. Interesting that philly seems to be shot to injur and next door camden seems to be shoot to kill.

njtransit 2y ago

What is the argument here, exactly?

ciupicri 2y ago

So if a university has money, learning there should be free? If you don't have guns, you won't have gun violence, but I guess the second amendment won't be changed any time soon.

tdeck 2y ago
> So if a university has money, learning there should be free? Not an unreasonable proposition. The purpose of the university is ostensibly to provide an education, not to continue hoarding more and more money.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > purpose of the university is ostensibly to provide an education One of the purposes. They’re also centres for learning and research and repositories of knowledge.
  - beeboobaa6 2y ago
    Also known as education
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      > Also known as education No. There are non-teaching research universities. Many universities have non-teaching faculty. Learning != teaching != education.
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
  - tdeck 2y ago
    If they were spending the money on those things, this might be an argument. But they're not spending it; they're hoarding it.

readthenotes1 2y ago

You left off (Drugs) https://www.cbsnews.com/philadelphia/news/mexico-depicts-philadelphia-street-scenes-in-anti-drug-ads/ https://www.cbsnews.com/philadelphia/news/mexico-depicts-phi...

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

rs999gti 2y ago

> UPenn is THE most obvious. Sitting on a $20,000,000,000 endowment fund that went up +170% over 10 years while Philadelphia rots with drug use, poverty, and gun violence. Why is it UPENN's responsibility to solve these issues? This is Philadelphia's problem, the university is just a business operating in the city.

bradchris 2y ago
I think that speaks to the low bar we have come to expect from our endowed institutions today more than anything else. American Universities, historically, are supposed to improve not just their students’ lives but also society as a whole, especially as serving as boosters for the city they’re in and their immediate neighbors. That’s why they’re nonprofits. That’s also likely their strongest lifeline to remain relevant in the future rather than as the hollow alumni clubs and gatekeepers their critics say they are, with AI/the internet/online schooling/topic of the day breaking down socioeconomic barriers to knowledge access That’s why the Carnegies and Mellons built libraries, museums, and the very literally named Carnegie-Mellon university, back then. Now it seems like the first thing billionaires today do is isolate themselves and their wealth from the masses as much as possible.
- Slava_Propanei 2y ago
  [dead]
- jjmarr 2y ago
  > That’s why the Carnegies and Mellons built libraries, museums, and the very literally named Carnegie-Mellon university, back then. Now it seems like the first thing billionaires today do is isolate themselves and their wealth from the masses as much as possible. Historically speaking, wealth accumulation was borderline impossible because the incentive to steal it was so large. You had to become a king, and then constantly murder people trying to take the throne, because everyone had the attitude that the only way to acquire wealth was to steal it from others. And that never really worked out well since the king was always threatened by death (the Sword of Damocles). This stopped when the upper classes realized it was cheaper and more effective to raise the living standard of everyone else than it is to prevent everyone else from stealing their wealth. When you create wealth, you share some of it with others. In other words, create a society where everyone has salt and pepper, rather than try to hoard salt/pepper for financial gain. That's true of schooling as well. In the Middle Ages, only the rich and powerful could read and write. Now that everyone knows how to read, Facebook has a trillion-dollar business selling words. This mentality is present in FOSS to some extent, but it isn't present for education anymore. Everyone seems to think good universities are a perpetually limited good, so we fight over limited admissions spots rather than figure out a way to deliver high quality education to the masses. It's stupid, because bumping up the difficulty is how we make education worthwhile.

janalsncm 2y ago

Is there a coherent argument tying A to B here? Schools have large endowments and are also sometimes located in violent cities. Is it your contention that one causes the other, or even could in theory affect the other? Otherwise I don’t see the point, you might as well bring up the number of potholes in Philadelphia too. Also Northwestern is in Evanston, not Chicago. Two different cities.

tossandthrow 2y ago
This is inequality - allowing some entities to accrue out of the world wealth while others starve. The US has the philosophical stance that this is accepted. However, history shows that is is a balance that will collapse into civil war eventually if allowed to skew to far.

tzs 2y ago

They are not sitting on it. They spend about 5% of it annually.

quickthrowman 2y ago

> UPenn is THE most obvious. Sitting on a $20,000,000,000 endowment fund that went up +170% over 10 years while Philadelphia rots with drug use, poverty, and gun violence. Endowments have strings attached that limits the use of funds, the endowed money isn’t just a general slush fund: https://www.acenet.edu/Documents/Understanding-College-and-University-Endowments.pdf https://www.acenet.edu/Documents/Understanding-College-and-U... Also, an endowment is meant to be perpetual, so only a small fraction of it is spent every year to ensure the principal amount doesn’t go down. “Don’t kill the golden goose” in other words.

mbil 2y ago

Just want to point out that Philadelphia’s homicide count is down ~40% from last year. And Penn’s “haven” looks similar to the other affluent commercial corridors throughout the city.

araes 2y ago
That's actually fair. Philly's 2022 numbers were 503 murders / 1793 woundings, and 2023 numbers were 422 murders / 1376 woundings. 84% murders / 76.5% woundings. Definitely trending in a better direction. If the 2024 numbers arrive and Philly's still looking better than maybe things are changing for the positive in that area.

leetcrew 2y ago

philadelphia rots? please. I grew up in baltimore. philly is not what a rotting city looks like.