3 ms·

For talented tech people: It's where the money is. In the EU the compensation difference between top 1% and bottom 1% performers is generally absurdly small.

by lysace 2y ago

bdangubic 2y ago
I think (outside of outliers) this is a common misconception. while your salary might be higher in the US we are paying a sh*tton of money for things that europeans generally do not, ESPECIALLY if you are a parent like myself. I am meticulous about tracking finance and so far (my daughter is 11) I have spent $374k which if I lived in Europe would now be in my pocket. This isn’t total expenses, this is only expenses that I have to pay for here that I would not otherwise. I also have another decade+ of raising and schooling etc to pay for Roughly another $50k per year on average I spend currently on other things that I would not be if I lived in Europe…
- thrw42A8N 2y ago
  Doesn't matter if your overall profit is higher. Which it is unless you're a very bad programmer.
  - bdangubic 2y ago
    Did you put this on paper? this is why I saw it is a misconception, everyone is just talking but if you put it on paper and actually do the math... I earn in the low $800's per year and would probably make 3/5's of that if I was in Europe, the math doesn't work out that I am better off in the US. It is just that my wife doesn't want to move that I am still here :)
    - thrw42A8N 2y ago
      480k per year in Europe? That's totally crazy. Where? I have never seen anyone claiming to make more than cca 200k, maybe 300k around here.
      - bdangubic 2y ago
        that is because they slave on "W2's" - I have been contracting with 2005-ish... on a "W2" it'd be (A LOT) harder but probably doable if you find the right spot. EU has a TON of money for small business, especially if you live in not-so-rich places (balkans, etc...) so doing contracting or starting a small 5-6 people dev shop is not out of reach for most talented and business-savvy devs
        thrw42A8N 2y ago
        Sure. That's very different from coasting at a FAANG though. And living in the Balkans is nothing like living in Bay Area, LA, NYC etc. I don't think it's comparable. But of course - do what is best for you. If this is your situation and you like living in the Balkans, go for it. I love the place myself. Overall though, I don't think this is the safe, easy, simple route. That's moving to the US and grinding some leetcode, not learning the basics of Balkan business culture and EU business regulations. I wouldn't recommend that to anyone who doesn't know very well what it takes - usually by going to a business school or having few years of business experience in EU - elsewhere doesn't count, it's much easier elsewhere. (I have experience exactly with what you suggest, to be clear. I had to stop doing that and go back to a much simpler and less risky principal engineering / SW engineering management job, as the stress and unclear/anti-business regulations were killing me.)
        bdangubic 2y ago
        I don't disagree with a single thing you wrote... I am still though sticking with my original comment that it is a big misconception that you are better off financially in US vs. EU (I won't mention non-financial things as that would be unfair and not-even-remotely-fair contest between EU and US) working in the US than EU. I think we focus on gross pay (in US people even talk salary BEFORE taxes which is absolute insanity, like "I make $300k - no you don't you make about 1/2 that depending on where you live, in EU when someone tells you then make $200k they mean that is how much money is deposited into their bank that year...) and not in terms of "real earnings" - very few people that make US > EU claims actually do some math...
- iteria 2y ago
  As someone with a kid, I'm trying to figure out how. First off the average spend for a kid if we can believe reports is 250K and honestly, feels like there's outliers bringing that up. My parents most certainly spend nowhere near that on me. But even for my kid, who lives a very middle class lifestyle, I don't see how I'm dump even half that into her and she's half your kid's age. I know for a fact that I have not spent that much. My healthcare spend has gone up 3K/year. everything involved in pregnancy up to birth was 8K. I pay for a private school which is than the daycare. I pay for extra activities. Even then I'm not at 100K and most of it is the privage school, I don't have to pay for, but wanted to to better accommodate my special needs kid when she was young. I'm not even doing that next year. I'm struggling to consider where I'd find another 150K+ to spend on her beyond mandated things like clothing. Are you talking college? I guess I'm lucky my state has a state scholarship and community college is free regardless. It's how I only paid 20K to get a bachelor's. I assume my kid will do the same whatever she picks.
  - bdangubic 2y ago
    my kid has been in daycare from the time she was 2 until time she was 6, that is $2,100/month. she started school at 6 and is now in 6th grade at $30k/year (sending a kid to public school amounts to child abuse unless you can't afford it if for nothing else than having to worry about ak-47's). at 7 years old she started playing volleyball at a local club, $5.5k/year first 3 years, $12k this year. we are up to $217k. HI is my wife and daughter combined, on average $1.5k/year so let's split that, $750/month, we'll round this to $100k so we are up to $317k. The rest are summer camps...
    - 0xBDB 2y ago
      I don't know if daycare is free in the EU, and I know that some higher education is, but I am confident that private school, summer camp and club sports are not. You could argue that it would be possible to send your kid to public school safely in the EU, but it would also be possible to send your kid to public school safely in an affluent North American suburb. It seems you have made lifestyle choices that are perfectly fine but that I would not expect to be subsidized in an egalitarian society, much less an individualistic one.

For talented tech people: It's where the money is. In the EU the compensation difference between top 1% and bottom 1% performers is generally absurdly small.

by lysace 2y ago

For talented tech people: It's where the money is. In the EU the compensation difference between top 1% and bottom 1% performers is generally absurdly small.

bdangubic 2y ago

I think (outside of outliers) this is a common misconception. while your salary might be higher in the US we are paying a sh*tton of money for things that europeans generally do not, ESPECIALLY if you are a parent like myself. I am meticulous about tracking finance and so far (my daughter is 11) I have spent $374k which if I lived in Europe would now be in my pocket. This isn’t total expenses, this is only expenses that I have to pay for here that I would not otherwise. I also have another decade+ of raising and schooling etc to pay for Roughly another $50k per year on average I spend currently on other things that I would not be if I lived in Europe…

thrw42A8N 2y ago
Doesn't matter if your overall profit is higher. Which it is unless you're a very bad programmer.
- bdangubic 2y ago
  Did you put this on paper? this is why I saw it is a misconception, everyone is just talking but if you put it on paper and actually do the math... I earn in the low $800's per year and would probably make 3/5's of that if I was in Europe, the math doesn't work out that I am better off in the US. It is just that my wife doesn't want to move that I am still here :)
  - thrw42A8N 2y ago
    480k per year in Europe? That's totally crazy. Where? I have never seen anyone claiming to make more than cca 200k, maybe 300k around here.
    - bdangubic 2y ago
      that is because they slave on "W2's" - I have been contracting with 2005-ish... on a "W2" it'd be (A LOT) harder but probably doable if you find the right spot. EU has a TON of money for small business, especially if you live in not-so-rich places (balkans, etc...) so doing contracting or starting a small 5-6 people dev shop is not out of reach for most talented and business-savvy devs
      - thrw42A8N 2y ago
        Sure. That's very different from coasting at a FAANG though. And living in the Balkans is nothing like living in Bay Area, LA, NYC etc. I don't think it's comparable. But of course - do what is best for you. If this is your situation and you like living in the Balkans, go for it. I love the place myself. Overall though, I don't think this is the safe, easy, simple route. That's moving to the US and grinding some leetcode, not learning the basics of Balkan business culture and EU business regulations. I wouldn't recommend that to anyone who doesn't know very well what it takes - usually by going to a business school or having few years of business experience in EU - elsewhere doesn't count, it's much easier elsewhere. (I have experience exactly with what you suggest, to be clear. I had to stop doing that and go back to a much simpler and less risky principal engineering / SW engineering management job, as the stress and unclear/anti-business regulations were killing me.)
        bdangubic 2y ago
        I don't disagree with a single thing you wrote... I am still though sticking with my original comment that it is a big misconception that you are better off financially in US vs. EU (I won't mention non-financial things as that would be unfair and not-even-remotely-fair contest between EU and US) working in the US than EU. I think we focus on gross pay (in US people even talk salary BEFORE taxes which is absolute insanity, like "I make $300k - no you don't you make about 1/2 that depending on where you live, in EU when someone tells you then make $200k they mean that is how much money is deposited into their bank that year...) and not in terms of "real earnings" - very few people that make US > EU claims actually do some math...
iteria 2y ago
As someone with a kid, I'm trying to figure out how. First off the average spend for a kid if we can believe reports is 250K and honestly, feels like there's outliers bringing that up. My parents most certainly spend nowhere near that on me. But even for my kid, who lives a very middle class lifestyle, I don't see how I'm dump even half that into her and she's half your kid's age. I know for a fact that I have not spent that much. My healthcare spend has gone up 3K/year. everything involved in pregnancy up to birth was 8K. I pay for a private school which is than the daycare. I pay for extra activities. Even then I'm not at 100K and most of it is the privage school, I don't have to pay for, but wanted to to better accommodate my special needs kid when she was young. I'm not even doing that next year. I'm struggling to consider where I'd find another 150K+ to spend on her beyond mandated things like clothing. Are you talking college? I guess I'm lucky my state has a state scholarship and community college is free regardless. It's how I only paid 20K to get a bachelor's. I assume my kid will do the same whatever she picks.
- bdangubic 2y ago
  my kid has been in daycare from the time she was 2 until time she was 6, that is $2,100/month. she started school at 6 and is now in 6th grade at $30k/year (sending a kid to public school amounts to child abuse unless you can't afford it if for nothing else than having to worry about ak-47's). at 7 years old she started playing volleyball at a local club, $5.5k/year first 3 years, $12k this year. we are up to $217k. HI is my wife and daughter combined, on average $1.5k/year so let's split that, $750/month, we'll round this to $100k so we are up to $317k. The rest are summer camps...
  - 0xBDB 2y ago
    I don't know if daycare is free in the EU, and I know that some higher education is, but I am confident that private school, summer camp and club sports are not. You could argue that it would be possible to send your kid to public school safely in the EU, but it would also be possible to send your kid to public school safely in an affluent North American suburb. It seems you have made lifestyle choices that are perfectly fine but that I would not expect to be subsidized in an egalitarian society, much less an individualistic one.