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Here is some insight as to the timing: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-gnu-emacs/2024-11/msg00840.html https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-gnu-emacs/

Here is some insight as to the timing: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-gnu-emacs/2024-11/msg00840.html https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-gnu-emacs/2024-11/msg...

shadowgovt 2y ago
The timing and also the root issue: Alan wants the `c-mode` symbol to mean "The mode I maintain, named 'CC-mode". The (dare I say) community is moving in the direction of it meaning "The mode users want to use for C (and C++ and C-like) files" (note: IIUC, this has outsized impact on the entire emacs ecosystem because a lot of modes for c-like languages are built atop the user's c-mode to save a lot of repetition, so the c-mode is both a major mode in its own right and the support framework for several other modes). Ultimately, "name ownership" isn't really a thing, it's going to be a lot more convenient to change one symbol's semantic meaning than to require an unknown number of additional dependent projects to remap to some other symbol, and while I respect Mr. Mackenzie's frustration, one's "ownership" is always limited when one works on free software collaboratively with others.
- funcDropShadow 2y ago
  These names are not internal names, like identifiers in the C source code of vim. The names in question appear in lot's of users Emacs configuration files. And Emacs has been extremely reluctant to change the meaning of those names in the past. Doing it here contradicts an important expectations of long time users. This is not only about "name ownership" of some mode's maintainer.
  - shadowgovt 2y ago
    Unless I misunderstand, the idea is that treesitter C-mode is supposed to be pretty-much a replacement for traditional c-mode, right? As in "In circumstances where I want to invoke the C-major-mode, I now want to invoke the one that uses treesitter?" If so, shifting the interpretation of the `c-mode` symbol seems the right avenue to accomplish that goal.
    - funcDropShadow 2y ago
      No, Emacs has lots and lots of config variables and functions which depend on the exact mode used. So, if you switch the major mode, you also have to switch to other config variables and functions. And as far as I see it, c-ts-mode is far from being a drop in replacement for everyone that currently uses c-mode.
    - bananapub 2y ago
      > Unless I misunderstand, the idea is that treesitter C-mode is supposed to be pretty-much a replacement for traditional c-mode, right? you're very much mistaken.
everybodyknows 2y ago
Head of that (very long) thread containing an objection from third party Eli to code committed by the person resigning: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-gnu-emacs/2024-11/msg00620.html https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-gnu-emacs/2024-11/msg...

Here is some insight as to the timing: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-gnu-emacs/2024-11/msg00840.html https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-gnu-emacs/2024-11/msg...

shadowgovt 2y ago

The timing and also the root issue: Alan wants the `c-mode` symbol to mean "The mode I maintain, named 'CC-mode". The (dare I say) community is moving in the direction of it meaning "The mode users want to use for C (and C++ and C-like) files" (note: IIUC, this has outsized impact on the entire emacs ecosystem because a lot of modes for c-like languages are built atop the user's c-mode to save a lot of repetition, so the c-mode is both a major mode in its own right and the support framework for several other modes). Ultimately, "name ownership" isn't really a thing, it's going to be a lot more convenient to change one symbol's semantic meaning than to require an unknown number of additional dependent projects to remap to some other symbol, and while I respect Mr. Mackenzie's frustration, one's "ownership" is always limited when one works on free software collaboratively with others.

funcDropShadow 2y ago
These names are not internal names, like identifiers in the C source code of vim. The names in question appear in lot's of users Emacs configuration files. And Emacs has been extremely reluctant to change the meaning of those names in the past. Doing it here contradicts an important expectations of long time users. This is not only about "name ownership" of some mode's maintainer.
- shadowgovt 2y ago
  Unless I misunderstand, the idea is that treesitter C-mode is supposed to be pretty-much a replacement for traditional c-mode, right? As in "In circumstances where I want to invoke the C-major-mode, I now want to invoke the one that uses treesitter?" If so, shifting the interpretation of the `c-mode` symbol seems the right avenue to accomplish that goal.
  - funcDropShadow 2y ago
    No, Emacs has lots and lots of config variables and functions which depend on the exact mode used. So, if you switch the major mode, you also have to switch to other config variables and functions. And as far as I see it, c-ts-mode is far from being a drop in replacement for everyone that currently uses c-mode.
  - bananapub 2y ago
    > Unless I misunderstand, the idea is that treesitter C-mode is supposed to be pretty-much a replacement for traditional c-mode, right? you're very much mistaken.

everybodyknows 2y ago

Head of that (very long) thread containing an objection from third party Eli to code committed by the person resigning: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-gnu-emacs/2024-11/msg00620.html https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-gnu-emacs/2024-11/msg...