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Perspective: China has 45 000 km of high speed rail, while the UK is struggling to build 500.

by rado 2y ago

m0llusk 2y ago
Perspective: China is suffering terribly from the out of control debt used to build their high speed rail system and incidents are being systematically covered up rather than used to improve reliability of service. It's a trillion dollar blow out, not the great success that so many claim it to be.
- rangestransform 2y ago
  There are some lines that were built for ideological/vanity project reasons, I dunno who tf thought it would be a good idea to build HSR to xinjiang, but the coastal lines are actually profitable [1] (take the government numbers with a huge grain of salt though) [1] https://defencepk.com/forums/threads/china-state-railway-ends-losses-in-2023-net-profit-exceeds-3-3-billion-but-only-6-high-speed-rail-lines-are-profitable.7754/ https://defencepk.com/forums/threads/china-state-railway-end...
  - vouwfietsman 2y ago
    > take the government numbers with a huge grain of salt though Large enough to make them unprofitable?
- rado 2y ago
  How is it suffering terribly?
- ossobuco 2y ago
  China has built the best and largest high-speed rail system in the world, at a fraction of the time and cost it's taken other developed countries to build tiny (in comparison) systems....BUT AT WHAT COST???? > It's a trillion dollar blow out, not the great success that so many claim it to be. Source?
  - vouwfietsman 2y ago
    Its fairly well known that China used these high speed rail developments to build itself out of the financial crisis, with dubious success of the resulting rail systems, and corresponding debt. This information is just a google away. Still not a bad deal for China though.
- ElevenLathe 2y ago
  Their foreign creditors presumably can't repossess the HSR lines and take them overseas, and the domestic creditors should be easy for the state to control. Maybe they'll pay back the money, maybe they won't. In the meantime and long after, the trains will run and generate real value for Chinese people and institutions.
  - adammarples 2y ago
    This is totally fine if you want to destroy foreign and indeed domestic investment. The China Railway Corporation has $859 billion in debt, twice that of Evergrande, which was a disaster.
    - inglor_cz 2y ago
      Wow. That is a shocking number. Do you have any interesting reading material on the indebtedness of Chinese railways? Is the system unitary, e.g. the owner of the track also owns all the trains? Or is there a competition?
netsharc 2y ago
and China has 9326410 sqkm of land while the UK is 243610 sqkm, i.e. the UK is 2.6% the size of China. 2.6% of 45000 is 1170.

Perspective: China has 45 000 km of high speed rail, while the UK is struggling to build 500.

by rado 2y ago

Perspective: China has 45 000 km of high speed rail, while the UK is struggling to build 500.

Perspective: China is suffering terribly from the out of control debt used to build their high speed rail system and incidents are being systematically covered up rather than used to improve reliability of service. It's a trillion dollar blow out, not the great success that so many claim it to be.

rangestransform 2y ago
There are some lines that were built for ideological/vanity project reasons, I dunno who tf thought it would be a good idea to build HSR to xinjiang, but the coastal lines are actually profitable [1] (take the government numbers with a huge grain of salt though) [1] https://defencepk.com/forums/threads/china-state-railway-ends-losses-in-2023-net-profit-exceeds-3-3-billion-but-only-6-high-speed-rail-lines-are-profitable.7754/ https://defencepk.com/forums/threads/china-state-railway-end...
- vouwfietsman 2y ago
  > take the government numbers with a huge grain of salt though Large enough to make them unprofitable?
rado 2y ago
How is it suffering terribly?
ossobuco 2y ago
China has built the best and largest high-speed rail system in the world, at a fraction of the time and cost it's taken other developed countries to build tiny (in comparison) systems....BUT AT WHAT COST???? > It's a trillion dollar blow out, not the great success that so many claim it to be. Source?
- vouwfietsman 2y ago
  Its fairly well known that China used these high speed rail developments to build itself out of the financial crisis, with dubious success of the resulting rail systems, and corresponding debt. This information is just a google away. Still not a bad deal for China though.
ElevenLathe 2y ago
Their foreign creditors presumably can't repossess the HSR lines and take them overseas, and the domestic creditors should be easy for the state to control. Maybe they'll pay back the money, maybe they won't. In the meantime and long after, the trains will run and generate real value for Chinese people and institutions.
- adammarples 2y ago
  This is totally fine if you want to destroy foreign and indeed domestic investment. The China Railway Corporation has $859 billion in debt, twice that of Evergrande, which was a disaster.
  - inglor_cz 2y ago
    Wow. That is a shocking number. Do you have any interesting reading material on the indebtedness of Chinese railways? Is the system unitary, e.g. the owner of the track also owns all the trains? Or is there a competition?

netsharc 2y ago

and China has 9326410 sqkm of land while the UK is 243610 sqkm, i.e. the UK is 2.6% the size of China. 2.6% of 45000 is 1170.