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https://bsky.app/profile/sallgrover.bsky.social https://bsky.app/profile/sallgrover.bsky.social https://x.com/salltweets/status/1857595757882188086 https://x.c

https://bsky.app/profile/sallgrover.bsky.social https://bsky.app/profile/sallgrover.bsky.social https://x.com/salltweets/status/1857595757882188086 https://x.com/salltweets/status/1857595757882188086 Sall Grover is the creator of a woman-only social app in Australia that was taken to court over that sex exclusivity. Posted a few controversial statements to test the atmosphere and this is the result.

tedajax 2y ago
[flagged]
- unclad5968 2y ago
  "censorship is fine as long as it's happening to people I don't agree with"
  - tedajax 2y ago
    Generally speaking, in real life, people tend to get kicked out of places for being bigots.
    - plapplap 2y ago
      There's nothing at all bigoted about pointing out that a man is a man. You just don't like this fact, so you've decided to label it as bigotry.
      - nick_ 2y ago
        Do you think that there are only two combinations of chromosomes in humans? XX and XY?
        Jensson 2y ago
        I think they are happy if all XY are classified as men and all XX are classified as women, can do whatever you want with the rest.
        plapplap 2y ago
        I have studied sex chromosome aneuploidies in humans, so no, I don't think that. Why do you ask?
  - intended 2y ago
    Yeah I’m done with this dishonesty. Perhaps you aren’t being dishonest, but this argument is the tip of the spear to justify harm of others. I’ve been a mod. I hate the fact that my only option is to silence. But by all that is holy I’m going to use all that I can when someone is using dishonest, malicious, malformed and malign arguments. I have seen what happens when trolls run unchallenged. ——- The great thing is that no two moderators will come to the same decision on a case, because context matters. There is almost certainly a community where X type of content is welcome. Why not go there ?
    - unclad5968 2y ago
      If someone decided you weren't allowed to participate in this community for using "schizoid" in a derogatory fashion I'd call it censorship all the same.
      - intended 2y ago
        I’m kinda flattered my post history was even looked at. Your position conflate the limited power mode have with tan ideological harm. The surest tonic for this is to volunteer as a mod. Please try. I got into it because I felt I had to put my money where my mouth. Most mod teams need volunteers, and normal people to share their experiences. By your criteria police are simply violent. Judges are simply judgemental. Heck everyone with a gun is a violent person.
- zb3 2y ago
  Yes, I want to decide what I want to read, and I don't care what you call "transphobia", especially since facts are often labeled as such.
happytoexplain 2y ago
This is just the common case where it's a thing one could express a morally honest opinion about, even if it's emotional or negative, but is instead expressed curtly for the purpose of encouraging hatred broadly. I.e. it's the exact definition of trolling (and specifically, group-hatred by intrinsic qualities like sexual feelings, race, etc, which is understandably the most commonly moderated type of trolling). I'm not going to go so far as to say that all platforms must moderate that type of content, but it is of course a decision that falls within the realm of reason for any given platform. So, it seems dishonest to spit on it as "censorship" (ever more, "brutal censorship"), assuming you are agreeing with the GP.
- plapplap 2y ago
  It's not hatred to point out that a man is a man. What a daft exaggeration.
  - happytoexplain 2y ago
    I don't think it's an exaggeration, and I don't think it's daft - I think the point of the common quips of the general format "trans 'women' are men", without more context, are almost always (and obviously in this case) simple provocations, intended to disparage and humiliate, in addition to serving as slogans that implicitly support an unstated argument. However, we have no way of knowing which arguments they are supporting, aside from a broad and unnecessarily bitter rejection of the concept of people who feel mentally like a different gender from their biological gender. So, purely as a random example: One of those unstated arguments is often the "don't let trans women into women's bathrooms" debate. I sympathize greatly with women who don't feel comfortable sharing a bathroom with trans women, and don't think anybody should be put through that (and I also sympathize with the trans woman's side of that problem, and have no good solution to offer to either side, but that's beside the point I'm making), but despite sharing that sympathy, I don't pretend to be unable to recognize hateful versions of that "sympathy" - that would be petty ideology.
    - plapplap 2y ago
kspacewalk2 2y ago
Judging purely from those Tweets, Sall is a troll who was correctly booted off a platform that is trying to improve the quality of discussions.
- plapplap 2y ago
  She posted a factual statement to test the waters and was instantly censored for it.
  - r00fus 2y ago
    Doesn't seem factual to me. Smells like a troll or flamebait. Deserves to be moderated into the ground.
    - plapplap 2y ago
      Why doesn't it seem factual to you?
  - happytoexplain 2y ago
    This is a very common form of dishonesty on this topic. First, even if we give you the benefit of the doubt and say it is factual, you do not need to lie in order to spread hatred, or at the very least provoke/troll people. "But it's true" is a childish defense in that context. If you were being honest, you would defend the practice of provoking/trolling people regarding gender identity (rather than merely defending the generic concept of saying something factually true, which is akin to the classic "I'm not touching you" game of provocation). And to be clear: I am not arguing against that theoretical argument in this comment - I am just saying that you should make that argument, since clearly you believe it but are being oblique about it. Secondarily (and I do mean secondarily - it's entirely subservient to the first point and basically just an exercise in argument): The statement isn't factual, since it's just disagreeing with a context in which a word is used. It's literally a semantic argument, which is always more or less subjective.
    - plapplap 2y ago

tedajax 2y ago

[flagged]

unclad5968 2y ago
"censorship is fine as long as it's happening to people I don't agree with"
- tedajax 2y ago
  Generally speaking, in real life, people tend to get kicked out of places for being bigots.
  - plapplap 2y ago
    There's nothing at all bigoted about pointing out that a man is a man. You just don't like this fact, so you've decided to label it as bigotry.
    - nick_ 2y ago
      Do you think that there are only two combinations of chromosomes in humans? XX and XY?
      - Jensson 2y ago
        I think they are happy if all XY are classified as men and all XX are classified as women, can do whatever you want with the rest.
      - plapplap 2y ago
        I have studied sex chromosome aneuploidies in humans, so no, I don't think that. Why do you ask?
- intended 2y ago
  Yeah I’m done with this dishonesty. Perhaps you aren’t being dishonest, but this argument is the tip of the spear to justify harm of others. I’ve been a mod. I hate the fact that my only option is to silence. But by all that is holy I’m going to use all that I can when someone is using dishonest, malicious, malformed and malign arguments. I have seen what happens when trolls run unchallenged. ——- The great thing is that no two moderators will come to the same decision on a case, because context matters. There is almost certainly a community where X type of content is welcome. Why not go there ?
  - unclad5968 2y ago
    If someone decided you weren't allowed to participate in this community for using "schizoid" in a derogatory fashion I'd call it censorship all the same.
    - intended 2y ago
      I’m kinda flattered my post history was even looked at. Your position conflate the limited power mode have with tan ideological harm. The surest tonic for this is to volunteer as a mod. Please try. I got into it because I felt I had to put my money where my mouth. Most mod teams need volunteers, and normal people to share their experiences. By your criteria police are simply violent. Judges are simply judgemental. Heck everyone with a gun is a violent person.
zb3 2y ago
Yes, I want to decide what I want to read, and I don't care what you call "transphobia", especially since facts are often labeled as such.

happytoexplain 2y ago

This is just the common case where it's a thing one could express a morally honest opinion about, even if it's emotional or negative, but is instead expressed curtly for the purpose of encouraging hatred broadly. I.e. it's the exact definition of trolling (and specifically, group-hatred by intrinsic qualities like sexual feelings, race, etc, which is understandably the most commonly moderated type of trolling). I'm not going to go so far as to say that all platforms must moderate that type of content, but it is of course a decision that falls within the realm of reason for any given platform. So, it seems dishonest to spit on it as "censorship" (ever more, "brutal censorship"), assuming you are agreeing with the GP.

plapplap 2y ago
It's not hatred to point out that a man is a man. What a daft exaggeration.
- happytoexplain 2y ago
  I don't think it's an exaggeration, and I don't think it's daft - I think the point of the common quips of the general format "trans 'women' are men", without more context, are almost always (and obviously in this case) simple provocations, intended to disparage and humiliate, in addition to serving as slogans that implicitly support an unstated argument. However, we have no way of knowing which arguments they are supporting, aside from a broad and unnecessarily bitter rejection of the concept of people who feel mentally like a different gender from their biological gender. So, purely as a random example: One of those unstated arguments is often the "don't let trans women into women's bathrooms" debate. I sympathize greatly with women who don't feel comfortable sharing a bathroom with trans women, and don't think anybody should be put through that (and I also sympathize with the trans woman's side of that problem, and have no good solution to offer to either side, but that's beside the point I'm making), but despite sharing that sympathy, I don't pretend to be unable to recognize hateful versions of that "sympathy" - that would be petty ideology.
  - plapplap 2y ago

kspacewalk2 2y ago

Judging purely from those Tweets, Sall is a troll who was correctly booted off a platform that is trying to improve the quality of discussions.

plapplap 2y ago
She posted a factual statement to test the waters and was instantly censored for it.
- r00fus 2y ago
  Doesn't seem factual to me. Smells like a troll or flamebait. Deserves to be moderated into the ground.
  - plapplap 2y ago
    Why doesn't it seem factual to you?
- happytoexplain 2y ago
  This is a very common form of dishonesty on this topic. First, even if we give you the benefit of the doubt and say it is factual, you do not need to lie in order to spread hatred, or at the very least provoke/troll people. "But it's true" is a childish defense in that context. If you were being honest, you would defend the practice of provoking/trolling people regarding gender identity (rather than merely defending the generic concept of saying something factually true, which is akin to the classic "I'm not touching you" game of provocation). And to be clear: I am not arguing against that theoretical argument in this comment - I am just saying that you should make that argument, since clearly you believe it but are being oblique about it. Secondarily (and I do mean secondarily - it's entirely subservient to the first point and basically just an exercise in argument): The statement isn't factual, since it's just disagreeing with a context in which a word is used. It's literally a semantic argument, which is always more or less subjective.
  - plapplap 2y ago