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I very much doubt AEB saves anything like as many lives as "studies" claim, for the simple reason the "studies" will not be able to account for the number of ti

by alvah 2y ago

I very much doubt AEB saves anything like as many lives as "studies" claim, for the simple reason the "studies" will not be able to account for the number of times AEB hauls on the anchors, unexpectedly, for no reason at all. This has happened to me 3 times in the last few years, fortunately with nobody behind me, and likely causes more accidents than it avoids. It will be good when it's production ready.

mpalfrey 2y ago
AEB at 62mph is likely to be pretty damn scary. I've experienced it slamming on at slow speeds and it's pretty aggressive.
- smitelli 2y ago
  Its existence has made me change my driving habits for sure, and none of my cars even have AEB. It’s a nagging sense that the car directly in front of me is going to come to a screeching halt for no reason and it’s up to my own reaction time to avoid rear-ending them. I also got a dashcam, but all things being equal my preference would be to not hit anything in the first place.
  - SAI_Peregrinus 2y ago
    > It’s a nagging sense that the car directly in front of me is going to come to a screeching halt for no reason and it’s up to my own reaction time to avoid rear-ending them. That should always be the case, even without AEB.
  - normie3000 2y ago
    If it's making people less inclined to tailgate, I'm in favor.
- randcraw 2y ago
  My 2019 Honda Ridgeline has slammed on its brakes at over 60 MPH half a dozen times when it decides I'm passing another vehicle too closely. I HATE the damned thing. I'd turn it off, but it resets back on each time I restart the vehicle so there's no point. It makes me gun shy every time I drive a 4 lane and start to pass someone. AND THAT SUCKS. IMO, all the vehicle's other convenience electronics are no-gos too. The lane keeping sensors trigger randomly and uselessly. Clearly the camera is unable to find the lane markers reliably. I turned off the service after less than a week of ownership. The auto-high-beams work poorly, often leaving the highs lit even though headlights are clearly approaching. So I have to remain constantly vigilant that I don't annoy others, AND that it hasn't turned itself back on automatically. Even the turn signals can't be stopped easily. Neither pulling on the stalk nor cross-signalling will stop the blinking once it starts. Cancellation seems to require about 8 additional blinks before it finally does stop, leaving me wondering which of my actions actually worked. After 5 years of ownership, I still don't know what the right magic incantation is for something that should be dead simple. What's the point of e-conveniences that are inconvenient?
  - consteval 2y ago
    Respectfully, you're probably driving too recklessly. I don't have this problem in this same generation of Honda Insight. If you're following too close, you really are at risk of an accident. Also, you're wasting gas - cranking it up to 80, getting on someone's ass, and then braking down to 65 is absolutely horrible for mileage.
    - randcraw 2y ago
      Respectfully, if you're driving an Insight, you probably never pass anyone.
      - consteval 2y ago
        Geez guess I hit a nerve. Look all I'm saying is I don't have this problem, and I also don't know anyone else who has this problem. In addition, in my experience, people who drive pickup trucks are much more likely to drive like they want to be put in the ground as fast as possible. Try not tailgating. Try not switching lanes when it's close. Your car will stop beeping at you, and you'll also save yourself a lot of money in the long run.
HPsquared 2y ago
Lane keeping assistants can be pretty bad too. I have a relative with a 2018 VW that has a lane keeping function, and it's swerved the car out of nowhere a couple of times (or at least, maybe it made a small correction which startled the driver and caused them to swerve - either way it's a human interaction nightmare). I think it's kept in some kind of standby mode at low speeds then kicks in automatically when over a certain speed, when IT chooses to kick in and can take the driver by surprise, the car tries to move to the centre of the lane (or what it thinks is the lane).
- DoingIsLearning 2y ago
  As a big defender of ADAS in general and after experiencing active Lane Keep (not LDW) in several rental vehicles, while on holiday, I feel that they genuinely make driving on countryside roads and mountain roads more dangerous.
  - angry_moose 2y ago
    That's been my experience. They apparently have no "understanding" of single lane roads. ~2022 Toyota and a 2025 Ford. Multiple times they attempted to steer me back into the oncoming vehicle because it thought I was too close to the edge. You can disable it but only for the current trip; so every time we got back in we had to go through a 2-3 minute checklist of disabling the murder settings.
    - whycome 2y ago
      > disabling the murder settings Why is owning a modern car such a nightmare...? I suspect there's also a weird overlaid anxiety when one feels like they are "co-piloting with an unpredictable partner" rather than just driving.
- notact 2y ago
  My VW has lane-keeping assist. In general I like it, because it had nudged me when I wasn't paying as much attention as I should have. But one failure mode is that it can detect shadows or other artifacts that it decides are lane markers. For example, at the right time of day hanging power lines will create a smooth curved shadow line on the road surface that the car will want to follow where ever they lead. It's not strong enough to yank the wheel out of my hands, but if I were briefly holding the wheel with my knee while reaching for something, it could get messy.
josefresco 2y ago
This wasn't a "study" of real world data it was a series of controlled tests by AAA. The full report is here: https://newsroom.aaa.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/REVISED-10-17-24-Full-Research-Report-Progression-AEB-Technology.pdf https://newsroom.aaa.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/REVISED-... The conclusion: The systems are getting better. There is no claim that they are creating safer roads, or are a net benefit.
- alvah 2y ago
  It's great that the systems are getting better. Maybe they should infict them on the public when they've reached a level where they're fit for purpose?
mattlondon 2y ago
Would a few tens of rear-end car to car accidents where no one gets hurt be worse than a pedestrian getting killed once?
- alvah 2y ago
  What about a few tens of rear-end car-to-car accidents, caused by inappropriate intervention by a poorly-calibrated system, where multiple people get hurt?

by alvah 2y ago

mpalfrey 2y ago

AEB at 62mph is likely to be pretty damn scary. I've experienced it slamming on at slow speeds and it's pretty aggressive.

smitelli 2y ago
Its existence has made me change my driving habits for sure, and none of my cars even have AEB. It’s a nagging sense that the car directly in front of me is going to come to a screeching halt for no reason and it’s up to my own reaction time to avoid rear-ending them. I also got a dashcam, but all things being equal my preference would be to not hit anything in the first place.
- SAI_Peregrinus 2y ago
  > It’s a nagging sense that the car directly in front of me is going to come to a screeching halt for no reason and it’s up to my own reaction time to avoid rear-ending them. That should always be the case, even without AEB.
- normie3000 2y ago
  If it's making people less inclined to tailgate, I'm in favor.
randcraw 2y ago
My 2019 Honda Ridgeline has slammed on its brakes at over 60 MPH half a dozen times when it decides I'm passing another vehicle too closely. I HATE the damned thing. I'd turn it off, but it resets back on each time I restart the vehicle so there's no point. It makes me gun shy every time I drive a 4 lane and start to pass someone. AND THAT SUCKS. IMO, all the vehicle's other convenience electronics are no-gos too. The lane keeping sensors trigger randomly and uselessly. Clearly the camera is unable to find the lane markers reliably. I turned off the service after less than a week of ownership. The auto-high-beams work poorly, often leaving the highs lit even though headlights are clearly approaching. So I have to remain constantly vigilant that I don't annoy others, AND that it hasn't turned itself back on automatically. Even the turn signals can't be stopped easily. Neither pulling on the stalk nor cross-signalling will stop the blinking once it starts. Cancellation seems to require about 8 additional blinks before it finally does stop, leaving me wondering which of my actions actually worked. After 5 years of ownership, I still don't know what the right magic incantation is for something that should be dead simple. What's the point of e-conveniences that are inconvenient?
- consteval 2y ago
  Respectfully, you're probably driving too recklessly. I don't have this problem in this same generation of Honda Insight. If you're following too close, you really are at risk of an accident. Also, you're wasting gas - cranking it up to 80, getting on someone's ass, and then braking down to 65 is absolutely horrible for mileage.
  - randcraw 2y ago
    Respectfully, if you're driving an Insight, you probably never pass anyone.
    - consteval 2y ago
      Geez guess I hit a nerve. Look all I'm saying is I don't have this problem, and I also don't know anyone else who has this problem. In addition, in my experience, people who drive pickup trucks are much more likely to drive like they want to be put in the ground as fast as possible. Try not tailgating. Try not switching lanes when it's close. Your car will stop beeping at you, and you'll also save yourself a lot of money in the long run.

HPsquared 2y ago

Lane keeping assistants can be pretty bad too. I have a relative with a 2018 VW that has a lane keeping function, and it's swerved the car out of nowhere a couple of times (or at least, maybe it made a small correction which startled the driver and caused them to swerve - either way it's a human interaction nightmare). I think it's kept in some kind of standby mode at low speeds then kicks in automatically when over a certain speed, when IT chooses to kick in and can take the driver by surprise, the car tries to move to the centre of the lane (or what it thinks is the lane).

DoingIsLearning 2y ago
As a big defender of ADAS in general and after experiencing active Lane Keep (not LDW) in several rental vehicles, while on holiday, I feel that they genuinely make driving on countryside roads and mountain roads more dangerous.
- angry_moose 2y ago
  That's been my experience. They apparently have no "understanding" of single lane roads. ~2022 Toyota and a 2025 Ford. Multiple times they attempted to steer me back into the oncoming vehicle because it thought I was too close to the edge. You can disable it but only for the current trip; so every time we got back in we had to go through a 2-3 minute checklist of disabling the murder settings.
  - whycome 2y ago
    > disabling the murder settings Why is owning a modern car such a nightmare...? I suspect there's also a weird overlaid anxiety when one feels like they are "co-piloting with an unpredictable partner" rather than just driving.
notact 2y ago
My VW has lane-keeping assist. In general I like it, because it had nudged me when I wasn't paying as much attention as I should have. But one failure mode is that it can detect shadows or other artifacts that it decides are lane markers. For example, at the right time of day hanging power lines will create a smooth curved shadow line on the road surface that the car will want to follow where ever they lead. It's not strong enough to yank the wheel out of my hands, but if I were briefly holding the wheel with my knee while reaching for something, it could get messy.

josefresco 2y ago

This wasn't a "study" of real world data it was a series of controlled tests by AAA. The full report is here: https://newsroom.aaa.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/REVISED-10-17-24-Full-Research-Report-Progression-AEB-Technology.pdf https://newsroom.aaa.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/REVISED-... The conclusion: The systems are getting better. There is no claim that they are creating safer roads, or are a net benefit.

alvah 2y ago
It's great that the systems are getting better. Maybe they should infict them on the public when they've reached a level where they're fit for purpose?

mattlondon 2y ago

Would a few tens of rear-end car to car accidents where no one gets hurt be worse than a pedestrian getting killed once?

alvah 2y ago
What about a few tens of rear-end car-to-car accidents, caused by inappropriate intervention by a poorly-calibrated system, where multiple people get hurt?