5 ms·

Flipping FLIP ship saved from scrapyard at last minute

169 points by roenxi 2y ago

Animats 2y ago
"FLIP is from a time of bold engineering and optimism for our future and our oceans." Indeed. There was a time in the 1960s when the oceans were considered to be as important to explore as space. From the Futurama ride at the 1964 World's Fair:[1] [1] https://youtu.be/2-5aK0H05jk?t=152 https://youtu.be/2-5aK0H05jk?t=152
- bragr 2y ago
  >There was a time in the 1960s when the oceans were considered to be as important to explore as space. Arguably a lot of that was just cover for cold war military submarine/anti-submarine research. Seabed hydrophones for tracking soviet subs, undersea mapping for submarine navigation, DSVs for recovering intelligence from wrecks, etc. Famously the discovery of the wreck of the Titanic was just the cover story for exploring submarine wrecks in the Atlantic. https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/13/us/titanic-discovery-classified-nuclear-sub/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/13/us/titanic-discovery-classifi...
  - gregschlom 2y ago
    Maybe, but the 60s are also the start of recreational scuba diving and that probably played a big part in it as well. All of a sudden there was this big unknown world that became accessible.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - adastra22 2y ago
    Maybe, but at least we dared to dream.
  - ddingus 2y ago
    That is just fine with me. I realize our current national politics leave a lot to be desired. That sucks. But, as long as we are advancing and stuff bleeds out to where mere mortals can access them, game on! I am not here to wish it were better. And I do want that, hope for that and am, when life permits, an activist to those ends. We all get a free ticket to this place. It is amazing! And we only get one. I plan on loving, living, building, doing, playing and all manner of things we find ourselves willing and able to do That is why I am here. And ideally, I leave it better than I found it. Well on track for that to be true right now which means I am here to take the risks I can manage. It is by no means perfect, but it is somewhat defensible POV.
    - MichaelZuo 2y ago
      Well it’s great… except for all the credibility the US lost abroad after claiming for several decades to not be doing many of those things under cover. Trading away what took over 200 years to build up, and will need another 200 years to regain to the same extent, isn’t smart.
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
      - toolz 2y ago
        Do you have an objective metric that suggests the US has lost (or is losing) credibility? I don't see any signs of it.
        MichaelZuo 2y ago
        UN voting patterns. e.g. In the 1990s General Assembly it was far from certain that the US would lose most of the contenious ones involving the US, every year, except maybe the annual Cuba vote. Whereas in 2023-2024, well you can check yourself. A lot of the time even countries like Norway or Ireland or Mexico vote against the US.
        2y ago
  - rf15 2y ago
    The moon landing was also a highly politically motivated project - spreading the dream of space exploration was just a means to an end. But it's a great dream, even with that context.
    - PittleyDunkin 2y ago
      I would have preferred a healthcare financing system, personally. But I guess we got technology instead.
      - karmonhardan 2y ago
        Indeed, the moon landing wasn't the universally-lauded come-together moment people like to portray it as. MLK had been assassinated the previous year and the Vietnam War was in full swing; there were a lot of things on people's minds (and greatly varying opinions on what the government ought to be spending money on). The common memory of the event can mostly be chalked up to a combination of propaganda and the people who tend to be able to get their writing about it published (white Baby Boomers).
      - User23 2y ago
        We spend far far more on healthcare than space or sea exploration already.
        PittleyDunkin 2y ago
        Yea, because we have a completely ass-backwards way of funding it. Anyway what I'm referring to is the spending of political capital in the context of the 60s. The rest of the world got socialized healthcare; we got a space program. I don't really see this as a problem, frankly. Space and sea exploration has little value compared to health care.
  - euroderf 2y ago
    Similarly, a lot of radio astronomy funding was Cold War cover for stuff like surveilling Soviet radar reflected from the moon.
- geon 2y ago
  Arthur C Clarke was a huge oceanography fan. Several of his novels are set in the sea.
mark_l_watson 2y ago
I am happy it is not being junked. For many years I saw it sailing past the Marine Physics Laboratory (part of Scripts Institute of Oceanography). Later my Dad became director of that lab, until he retired. Such a cool idea for an experiment platform to rotate ninety degrees for stability.
- relwin 2y ago
  I remember seeing a tug pulling a gigantic floating softball bat up and down the coast a few times -- definitely unusual!
- tomcam 2y ago
  Holy crap your family is a bunch of serious overachievers My kids will never have to worry about that problem
psunavy03 2y ago
Interesting. I had no idea it was originally designed for testing SUBROC.
roygbiv2 2y ago
I first read about this in a book as a child and was fascinated by it. The same book detailed a channel tunnel that was being planned between England and France, that definitely dates me.
walrus01 2y ago
The lifespan of any vessel, barge, ship, ferry, whatever that's built from steel and lives its entire life in saltwater is limited. I don't think anyone should be surprised that something built in 1962 has become uneconomical to maintain and needs to be scrapped. In this case it's probably unique enough that someone did the math on it and determined that for however many millions of euros are being spent to rehabilitate it in a shipyard, keeping it viable for another 10-15 years, it's less expensive than building an entirely new one to a custom design.
- potato3732842 2y ago
  It's not that it's uneconomical to maintain the core ship. It's that ships periodically need to be refitted the same way houses get renovated and without a future use to justify that there's no reason to do so.
  - walrus01 2y ago
    I've seen detailed photo galleries of former WA state ferries when they go for auction, after they've reached the end of their service life as judged by the state government. Usually at the 40+ year mark. Throughout their service lives they get refitted and fixed up on an almost continual basis, many millions of dollars are spent on maintaining each one, but at a certain point, it starts looking like a money pit to pour funds into continuing to fix up a 35, 40 year old vessel in salt water. There's some ships on the great lakes which are 70, 75, 80 years old and don't have nearly the same ongoing corrosion issues as similar ones that live in salt water.
- Stevvo 2y ago
  Not true. A steel boat can last indefinitely if regularly maintained. Properly painted steel does not rust. There are many surviving examples from the 1830s, not restored but maintained continuously.
  - hmmm-i-wonder 2y ago
    Properly painted steel wont. But steel wont stay "properly painted" during operation, leading to rust forming between maintenance. Maintenance is also typically rushed leading to painting over rust in many cases resulting in more rust sooner. We used to joke about the local ferries being mostly rust and paint, but it wasn't much of a joke to be honest.
sans_souse 2y ago
"Our mission is perhaps equally bold: to make humans aquatic by enabling our species to live, work and thrive underwater. FLIP will play a key role in the DEEP fleet, providing a one-of-a-kind platform for ocean research and being capable of supporting DEEP's Sentinel habitat deployments as part of our extended research network." Well, damn..
- adastra22 2y ago
  If you can’t say this about your own startup, what are you even doing?
  - sans_souse 2y ago
    nothing underwater..
_def 2y ago
I'll still be hoping Christopher Nolan will use it in a movie
JimmyWilliams1 2y ago
[flagged]
neom 2y ago
Pretty decent 2 minute video detailing the ship more: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dftaWQLtPQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dftaWQLtPQ
lupusreal 2y ago
It doesn't have propulsion of its own and needs to be towed everywhere; is it technically a ship? Seems more like a fancy barge or platform. Very cool in any case, I'm glad it's been saved.
- ethbr1 2y ago
  It moves. Just only rotationally. :)
- diggan 2y ago
  Wikipedia calls it "open ocean research platform" which seems more appropriate, agree. But it doesn't rhyme as nicely as "Flipping FLIP ship" so I understand the author took a bit of liberty in the title, at least they explain what FLIP stands for ("FLoating Instrument Platform") which makes it pretty clear if it's a ship or platform :)
toomuchtodo 2y ago
Related: RP FLIP escapes wrecker's claws - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41964882 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41964882 - Oct 2024 (50 comments) Scripps Institution of Oceanography’s FLIP vessel decommissioned after 60 years - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37072588 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37072588 - Aug 2023 (51 comments) A ship that flips 90 degrees for precise scientific measurements - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15078094 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15078094 - Aug 2017 (75 comments) "Flip", the vertical ship, marks 50 years at sea - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4193185 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4193185 - July 2012 (34 comments) Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RP_FLIP https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RP_FLIP
didntcheck 2y ago
Nice. I have fond memories of being chased by a Flesher in one of those
- Orbital_Armada 2y ago
  I was looking for a Soma reference... Only fitting for it to be at the bottom! :P

169 points by roenxi 2y ago

"FLIP is from a time of bold engineering and optimism for our future and our oceans." Indeed. There was a time in the 1960s when the oceans were considered to be as important to explore as space. From the Futurama ride at the 1964 World's Fair:[1] [1] https://youtu.be/2-5aK0H05jk?t=152 https://youtu.be/2-5aK0H05jk?t=152

bragr 2y ago
>There was a time in the 1960s when the oceans were considered to be as important to explore as space. Arguably a lot of that was just cover for cold war military submarine/anti-submarine research. Seabed hydrophones for tracking soviet subs, undersea mapping for submarine navigation, DSVs for recovering intelligence from wrecks, etc. Famously the discovery of the wreck of the Titanic was just the cover story for exploring submarine wrecks in the Atlantic. https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/13/us/titanic-discovery-classified-nuclear-sub/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/13/us/titanic-discovery-classifi...
- gregschlom 2y ago
  Maybe, but the 60s are also the start of recreational scuba diving and that probably played a big part in it as well. All of a sudden there was this big unknown world that became accessible.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- adastra22 2y ago
  Maybe, but at least we dared to dream.
- ddingus 2y ago
  That is just fine with me. I realize our current national politics leave a lot to be desired. That sucks. But, as long as we are advancing and stuff bleeds out to where mere mortals can access them, game on! I am not here to wish it were better. And I do want that, hope for that and am, when life permits, an activist to those ends. We all get a free ticket to this place. It is amazing! And we only get one. I plan on loving, living, building, doing, playing and all manner of things we find ourselves willing and able to do That is why I am here. And ideally, I leave it better than I found it. Well on track for that to be true right now which means I am here to take the risks I can manage. It is by no means perfect, but it is somewhat defensible POV.
  - MichaelZuo 2y ago
    Well it’s great… except for all the credibility the US lost abroad after claiming for several decades to not be doing many of those things under cover. Trading away what took over 200 years to build up, and will need another 200 years to regain to the same extent, isn’t smart.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - toolz 2y ago
      Do you have an objective metric that suggests the US has lost (or is losing) credibility? I don't see any signs of it.
      - MichaelZuo 2y ago
        UN voting patterns. e.g. In the 1990s General Assembly it was far from certain that the US would lose most of the contenious ones involving the US, every year, except maybe the annual Cuba vote. Whereas in 2023-2024, well you can check yourself. A lot of the time even countries like Norway or Ireland or Mexico vote against the US.
        2y ago
- rf15 2y ago
  The moon landing was also a highly politically motivated project - spreading the dream of space exploration was just a means to an end. But it's a great dream, even with that context.
  - PittleyDunkin 2y ago
    I would have preferred a healthcare financing system, personally. But I guess we got technology instead.
    - karmonhardan 2y ago
      Indeed, the moon landing wasn't the universally-lauded come-together moment people like to portray it as. MLK had been assassinated the previous year and the Vietnam War was in full swing; there were a lot of things on people's minds (and greatly varying opinions on what the government ought to be spending money on). The common memory of the event can mostly be chalked up to a combination of propaganda and the people who tend to be able to get their writing about it published (white Baby Boomers).
    - User23 2y ago
      We spend far far more on healthcare than space or sea exploration already.
      - PittleyDunkin 2y ago
        Yea, because we have a completely ass-backwards way of funding it. Anyway what I'm referring to is the spending of political capital in the context of the 60s. The rest of the world got socialized healthcare; we got a space program. I don't really see this as a problem, frankly. Space and sea exploration has little value compared to health care.
- euroderf 2y ago
  Similarly, a lot of radio astronomy funding was Cold War cover for stuff like surveilling Soviet radar reflected from the moon.
geon 2y ago
Arthur C Clarke was a huge oceanography fan. Several of his novels are set in the sea.

mark_l_watson 2y ago

I am happy it is not being junked. For many years I saw it sailing past the Marine Physics Laboratory (part of Scripts Institute of Oceanography). Later my Dad became director of that lab, until he retired. Such a cool idea for an experiment platform to rotate ninety degrees for stability.

relwin 2y ago
I remember seeing a tug pulling a gigantic floating softball bat up and down the coast a few times -- definitely unusual!
tomcam 2y ago
Holy crap your family is a bunch of serious overachievers My kids will never have to worry about that problem

psunavy03 2y ago

Interesting. I had no idea it was originally designed for testing SUBROC.

roygbiv2 2y ago

I first read about this in a book as a child and was fascinated by it. The same book detailed a channel tunnel that was being planned between England and France, that definitely dates me.

walrus01 2y ago

The lifespan of any vessel, barge, ship, ferry, whatever that's built from steel and lives its entire life in saltwater is limited. I don't think anyone should be surprised that something built in 1962 has become uneconomical to maintain and needs to be scrapped. In this case it's probably unique enough that someone did the math on it and determined that for however many millions of euros are being spent to rehabilitate it in a shipyard, keeping it viable for another 10-15 years, it's less expensive than building an entirely new one to a custom design.

potato3732842 2y ago
It's not that it's uneconomical to maintain the core ship. It's that ships periodically need to be refitted the same way houses get renovated and without a future use to justify that there's no reason to do so.
- walrus01 2y ago
  I've seen detailed photo galleries of former WA state ferries when they go for auction, after they've reached the end of their service life as judged by the state government. Usually at the 40+ year mark. Throughout their service lives they get refitted and fixed up on an almost continual basis, many millions of dollars are spent on maintaining each one, but at a certain point, it starts looking like a money pit to pour funds into continuing to fix up a 35, 40 year old vessel in salt water. There's some ships on the great lakes which are 70, 75, 80 years old and don't have nearly the same ongoing corrosion issues as similar ones that live in salt water.
Stevvo 2y ago
Not true. A steel boat can last indefinitely if regularly maintained. Properly painted steel does not rust. There are many surviving examples from the 1830s, not restored but maintained continuously.
- hmmm-i-wonder 2y ago
  Properly painted steel wont. But steel wont stay "properly painted" during operation, leading to rust forming between maintenance. Maintenance is also typically rushed leading to painting over rust in many cases resulting in more rust sooner. We used to joke about the local ferries being mostly rust and paint, but it wasn't much of a joke to be honest.

sans_souse 2y ago

"Our mission is perhaps equally bold: to make humans aquatic by enabling our species to live, work and thrive underwater. FLIP will play a key role in the DEEP fleet, providing a one-of-a-kind platform for ocean research and being capable of supporting DEEP's Sentinel habitat deployments as part of our extended research network." Well, damn..

adastra22 2y ago
If you can’t say this about your own startup, what are you even doing?
- sans_souse 2y ago
  nothing underwater..

_def 2y ago

I'll still be hoping Christopher Nolan will use it in a movie

JimmyWilliams1 2y ago

[flagged]

neom 2y ago

Pretty decent 2 minute video detailing the ship more: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dftaWQLtPQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dftaWQLtPQ

lupusreal 2y ago

It doesn't have propulsion of its own and needs to be towed everywhere; is it technically a ship? Seems more like a fancy barge or platform. Very cool in any case, I'm glad it's been saved.

ethbr1 2y ago
It moves. Just only rotationally. :)
diggan 2y ago
Wikipedia calls it "open ocean research platform" which seems more appropriate, agree. But it doesn't rhyme as nicely as "Flipping FLIP ship" so I understand the author took a bit of liberty in the title, at least they explain what FLIP stands for ("FLoating Instrument Platform") which makes it pretty clear if it's a ship or platform :)

toomuchtodo 2y ago

Related: RP FLIP escapes wrecker's claws - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41964882 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41964882 - Oct 2024 (50 comments) Scripps Institution of Oceanography’s FLIP vessel decommissioned after 60 years - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37072588 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37072588 - Aug 2023 (51 comments) A ship that flips 90 degrees for precise scientific measurements - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15078094 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15078094 - Aug 2017 (75 comments) "Flip", the vertical ship, marks 50 years at sea - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4193185 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4193185 - July 2012 (34 comments) Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RP_FLIP https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RP_FLIP

didntcheck 2y ago

Nice. I have fond memories of being chased by a Flesher in one of those

Orbital_Armada 2y ago
I was looking for a Soma reference... Only fitting for it to be at the bottom! :P