4 ms·

If it were critical, it would have already happened. But Germany and the EU know deep inside that this isn’t about ideology and conquest and Ukraine is a pretty

by blub 2y ago

If it were critical, it would have already happened. But Germany and the EU know deep inside that this isn’t about ideology and conquest and Ukraine is a pretty unique case. On the other hand with Germany and the EU acting so tough, Russia might believe them, so some military investment is probably wise.

matthewdgreen 2y ago
There's nothing unique about Ukraine. Russia has already taken action against Georgia, and will continue to destablize the eastern half of Europe. You're either aware of this or you're in denial, which Germany obviously is. (Same people who made themselves dependent on Russian gas right before the Ukraine invasion, despite every warning to the contrary.)
- blub 2y ago
  It would help if you got your basic facts straight on Georgia, but to be fair this topic has been thoroughly retconned: the EU fact-finding mission reported that Georgia attacked Abkhazia and South Ossetia. They also found that the action that Russia took against Georgia was basically justified, but heavily disproportionate (they shouldn’t have made deep incursions into Georgia). Another interesting fact: many countries, including in Eastern Europe were and are dependent on Russian gas. Ever heard of the Yamal pipeline?
aguaviva 2y ago
But Germany and the EU know deep inside that this isn’t about ideology and conquest Looks like an attempt to project your own views onto people you don't know. Meanwhile, to the extent that we do have a recent, official statement from the European hive mind -- it points in the exact opposite direction of the sentiment you are attempting to assign to it, saying that "Russia is systematically attacking European security architecture". And in terms of ideology, it specifically cites the Russian regime's "reckless revisionism". See: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42182897 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42182897
- blub 2y ago
  We’re just in the middle of the propaganda maelstrom. If you pay attention to what the odd article from the big newspapers is saying and what politicians (or especially ex-politicians) are saying you’ll get a more accurate picture. Merkel had a BBC interview recently where she quite frankly said that France and Germany blocked Ukraine from joining NATO to avoid precisely such a war and that the gas deals were done for the benefit of the German economy and to get closer to Russia, a major power: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c3e8y1qly52o https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c3e8y1qly52o Basic Realpolitik which has become unfashionable in the age of constant moral outrage about race, gender, immigration and pretty much everything. That being said, Russia is dangerous and preparing is wise, especially now that we in the EU massively pissed them off.

by blub 2y ago

matthewdgreen 2y ago

There's nothing unique about Ukraine. Russia has already taken action against Georgia, and will continue to destablize the eastern half of Europe. You're either aware of this or you're in denial, which Germany obviously is. (Same people who made themselves dependent on Russian gas right before the Ukraine invasion, despite every warning to the contrary.)

blub 2y ago
It would help if you got your basic facts straight on Georgia, but to be fair this topic has been thoroughly retconned: the EU fact-finding mission reported that Georgia attacked Abkhazia and South Ossetia. They also found that the action that Russia took against Georgia was basically justified, but heavily disproportionate (they shouldn’t have made deep incursions into Georgia). Another interesting fact: many countries, including in Eastern Europe were and are dependent on Russian gas. Ever heard of the Yamal pipeline?

aguaviva 2y ago

But Germany and the EU know deep inside that this isn’t about ideology and conquest Looks like an attempt to project your own views onto people you don't know. Meanwhile, to the extent that we do have a recent, official statement from the European hive mind -- it points in the exact opposite direction of the sentiment you are attempting to assign to it, saying that "Russia is systematically attacking European security architecture". And in terms of ideology, it specifically cites the Russian regime's "reckless revisionism". See: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42182897 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42182897

blub 2y ago
We’re just in the middle of the propaganda maelstrom. If you pay attention to what the odd article from the big newspapers is saying and what politicians (or especially ex-politicians) are saying you’ll get a more accurate picture. Merkel had a BBC interview recently where she quite frankly said that France and Germany blocked Ukraine from joining NATO to avoid precisely such a war and that the gas deals were done for the benefit of the German economy and to get closer to Russia, a major power: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c3e8y1qly52o https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c3e8y1qly52o Basic Realpolitik which has become unfashionable in the age of constant moral outrage about race, gender, immigration and pretty much everything. That being said, Russia is dangerous and preparing is wise, especially now that we in the EU massively pissed them off.