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I wish they would GPL it like Quake. Even if it was missing some proprietary dependencies I bet the community could replace them. I recently helped port ioquak

I wish they would GPL it like Quake. Even if it was missing some proprietary dependencies I bet the community could replace them. I recently helped port ioquake3 to the web, complete with UDP multiplayer, and set up an online demo using the internet archive's copy of the Quake III demo: https://thelongestyard.link https://thelongestyard.link It would be cool to be able to do the same with Unreal Tournament.

kaoD 2y ago
I can't find a link to your port's code. I think you have to include it as per GPL's license (and also because it's awesome and I want to see the code!)
- modeless 2y ago
  It is here: https://github.com/jdarpinian/ioq3 https://github.com/jdarpinian/ioq3
dmead 2y ago
Ioquake was helpful for the open Jedi project get an open source version of jk3 working. https://github.com/OpenJediProject/OJP https://github.com/OpenJediProject/OJP I'm sure there is some small group of UT people that would gladly keep it alive in a similar fashion.
deafpolygon 2y ago
Im willing to bet the code for UT is being used for Fortnite.
- mikepurvis 2y ago
  That shouldn’t have any impact on its ability to be relicensed and open sourced though— any secret sauce in Fortnite is elsewhere, and arguably none of it is code, but rather in asset-level stuff like game/map/character design and monetization/progression strategy.
- pests 2y ago
  My first introduction to Unreal was via the "Unreal Tournament: Game of the Year Edition" right around the year 2000. I fondly remember some of those maps (Facing Worlds for one) but to think that lineage ends up at Fornite is crazy to me.
  - iakov 2y ago
    Oh man, I loved that game as a kid. I did not have internet back then, but I didn’t care - I spent hours playing against bots. I still remember the voice taunts and callouts (“I slaughtered that guy!”) and creative maps like ctf_face. Then there were the built in gameplay mods like insta-gib and low gravity, fun guns like Redeemer - kept me glued to the screen for hours. I did not understand why people are playing CS at the computer clubs - UT was a much better and bigger game! Thanks for a trip down the memory lane. Good, simple times.
    - zelos 2y ago
      "I did not understand why people are playing CS at the computer clubs..." I was the same. UT was so much fun - bouncing flak cannon shrapnel round corners! But my LAN group all wanted to play CS or that UT mod that was similar (Tactical Ops?).
    - pests 2y ago
      I don't think I knew too much about computers or gaming at that age to figure all that out. I just played the base mode. My introduction to programming was thru a different game (Subspace VIE, a MMO on dialup back in the 90s later community-remade as Continuum) when squad had a login page at a domain. I really wondered how example.com/?login worked and that led me to where I am today.
  - ZaoLahma 2y ago
    The base game was fantastic. Never could say no to a game on dm-morpheus. But what really made it great for me were the total conversion mods. I spent probably thousands of hours playing Infiltration back in the day. I can't imagine how much time and energy must have been poured into completely re-doing a game like that.
- numpad0 2y ago
  It doesn't make a lot of intuitive sense, but code can be released under multiple different licenses. A 1:1 relationship between code and its terms is not required.
- jsiepkes 2y ago
  It's a 25 year old game engine. There is not going to be anything in it which they consider a trade secret today.
  - jsheard 2y ago
    Even the current Unreal Engine doesn't have much in the way of trade secrets, its entire source code is available on GitHub for anyone to look at (aside from the console-specific parts bound by NDAs).
- Melonotromo 2y ago
  Fortnite uses Unreal Engine 5, the most advanced Game Engine in existens which sourcecode is freely available for a few years now. Open sourcing old stuff is a lot of effort. You need to find all people involved or know the legal status of the copyright. You need to go through all the code in case you had some properitary stuff in there which you might have paid for. And you need to do all of this next to what you normally do without a direct benefit.
pxc 2y ago
When I was a kid, I had so much fun playing open-source games based on Quake engines. Tremulous stands out as especially delightful at the little LAN parties we threw at my house on birthdays and New Years' Eve.
Ralfp 2y ago
The state of things here is that Unreal Engine 1 may be open sourced one day but would need cleaning up first. And they just never got around doing it: https://forums.unrealengine.com/t/unreal-engine-1/14084/6 https://forums.unrealengine.com/t/unreal-engine-1/14084/6
- tempaccount420 2y ago
  Why clean up first? Could be devs pushing back because they're ashamed (unnecessarily) of their code?
  - cibyr 2y ago
    We saw with Winamp how badly it can go (lots of license violations on vendored dependencies): https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/10/winamp-really-whips-open-source-coders-into-frenzy-with-its-source-release/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/10/winamp-really-whips-...
  - account42 2y ago
    Cleaning up in this context means figuring out what parts of the code they actually own and removing/replacing the parts they don't.
looshch 2y ago
> to the web you mean like to browser? If yes, how did you achieve UDP connections? To my best knowledge, browsers allow TCP only
- desdenova 2y ago
  WebSockets are TCP-only. WebRTC can run over UDP, but it's not raw UDP. I think that's what they meant.
  - kaoD 2y ago
    I don't have time to look into the code right now, but it might also be WebTransport: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/WebTransport_API https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/WebTranspor... EDIT: actually I can't find the code, shouldn't it be linked as per GPL's license?
  - junon 2y ago
    WebSockets also initiate a normal Http request first, further complicating things anyway.
  - modeless 2y ago
    Yes, it's WebRTC. It uses real unreliable and unordered UDP packets, peer-to-peer. But WebRTC requires a connection establishment step to happen first, so it can't send traffic to arbitrary UDP services, only cooperating WebRTC peers. Which is fine for multiplayer games.

kaoD 2y ago

I can't find a link to your port's code. I think you have to include it as per GPL's license (and also because it's awesome and I want to see the code!)

modeless 2y ago
It is here: https://github.com/jdarpinian/ioq3 https://github.com/jdarpinian/ioq3

dmead 2y ago

Ioquake was helpful for the open Jedi project get an open source version of jk3 working. https://github.com/OpenJediProject/OJP https://github.com/OpenJediProject/OJP I'm sure there is some small group of UT people that would gladly keep it alive in a similar fashion.

deafpolygon 2y ago

Im willing to bet the code for UT is being used for Fortnite.

mikepurvis 2y ago
That shouldn’t have any impact on its ability to be relicensed and open sourced though— any secret sauce in Fortnite is elsewhere, and arguably none of it is code, but rather in asset-level stuff like game/map/character design and monetization/progression strategy.
pests 2y ago
My first introduction to Unreal was via the "Unreal Tournament: Game of the Year Edition" right around the year 2000. I fondly remember some of those maps (Facing Worlds for one) but to think that lineage ends up at Fornite is crazy to me.
- iakov 2y ago
  Oh man, I loved that game as a kid. I did not have internet back then, but I didn’t care - I spent hours playing against bots. I still remember the voice taunts and callouts (“I slaughtered that guy!”) and creative maps like ctf_face. Then there were the built in gameplay mods like insta-gib and low gravity, fun guns like Redeemer - kept me glued to the screen for hours. I did not understand why people are playing CS at the computer clubs - UT was a much better and bigger game! Thanks for a trip down the memory lane. Good, simple times.
  - zelos 2y ago
    "I did not understand why people are playing CS at the computer clubs..." I was the same. UT was so much fun - bouncing flak cannon shrapnel round corners! But my LAN group all wanted to play CS or that UT mod that was similar (Tactical Ops?).
  - pests 2y ago
    I don't think I knew too much about computers or gaming at that age to figure all that out. I just played the base mode. My introduction to programming was thru a different game (Subspace VIE, a MMO on dialup back in the 90s later community-remade as Continuum) when squad had a login page at a domain. I really wondered how example.com/?login worked and that led me to where I am today.
- ZaoLahma 2y ago
  The base game was fantastic. Never could say no to a game on dm-morpheus. But what really made it great for me were the total conversion mods. I spent probably thousands of hours playing Infiltration back in the day. I can't imagine how much time and energy must have been poured into completely re-doing a game like that.
numpad0 2y ago
It doesn't make a lot of intuitive sense, but code can be released under multiple different licenses. A 1:1 relationship between code and its terms is not required.
jsiepkes 2y ago
It's a 25 year old game engine. There is not going to be anything in it which they consider a trade secret today.
- jsheard 2y ago
  Even the current Unreal Engine doesn't have much in the way of trade secrets, its entire source code is available on GitHub for anyone to look at (aside from the console-specific parts bound by NDAs).
Melonotromo 2y ago
Fortnite uses Unreal Engine 5, the most advanced Game Engine in existens which sourcecode is freely available for a few years now. Open sourcing old stuff is a lot of effort. You need to find all people involved or know the legal status of the copyright. You need to go through all the code in case you had some properitary stuff in there which you might have paid for. And you need to do all of this next to what you normally do without a direct benefit.

pxc 2y ago

When I was a kid, I had so much fun playing open-source games based on Quake engines. Tremulous stands out as especially delightful at the little LAN parties we threw at my house on birthdays and New Years' Eve.

Ralfp 2y ago

The state of things here is that Unreal Engine 1 may be open sourced one day but would need cleaning up first. And they just never got around doing it: https://forums.unrealengine.com/t/unreal-engine-1/14084/6 https://forums.unrealengine.com/t/unreal-engine-1/14084/6

tempaccount420 2y ago
Why clean up first? Could be devs pushing back because they're ashamed (unnecessarily) of their code?
- cibyr 2y ago
  We saw with Winamp how badly it can go (lots of license violations on vendored dependencies): https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/10/winamp-really-whips-open-source-coders-into-frenzy-with-its-source-release/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/10/winamp-really-whips-...
- account42 2y ago
  Cleaning up in this context means figuring out what parts of the code they actually own and removing/replacing the parts they don't.

looshch 2y ago

> to the web you mean like to browser? If yes, how did you achieve UDP connections? To my best knowledge, browsers allow TCP only

desdenova 2y ago
WebSockets are TCP-only. WebRTC can run over UDP, but it's not raw UDP. I think that's what they meant.
- kaoD 2y ago
  I don't have time to look into the code right now, but it might also be WebTransport: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/WebTransport_API https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/WebTranspor... EDIT: actually I can't find the code, shouldn't it be linked as per GPL's license?
- junon 2y ago
  WebSockets also initiate a normal Http request first, further complicating things anyway.
- modeless 2y ago
  Yes, it's WebRTC. It uses real unreliable and unordered UDP packets, peer-to-peer. But WebRTC requires a connection establishment step to happen first, so it can't send traffic to arbitrary UDP services, only cooperating WebRTC peers. Which is fine for multiplayer games.