2 ms·

Whether or not it aligns with whatever you say it does It's wrong on its own merits, not on the basis of anything I say. How would I really know? It is mostly

Whether or not it aligns with whatever you say it does It's wrong on its own merits, not on the basis of anything I say. How would I really know? It is mostly hearsay. Actually it's not. It's actually pretty easy to get a good sense of what's going on, just by reading whatever sources one does read with a reasonably critical eye. And if one is really bold, by taking the care to read diverse sources. What brought me to respond to you in this case is that you seemed be echoing talking points you had heard or read somewhere, but which were just not grounded in the basic reality of the situation. Talking to people actually from the region (actual real, regular people) can be very helpful, also. In fact to make this very simple for you: just completely forget everything you've read on the internet -- and just talk to people actually affected by the situation for a while. You'll definitely start to get a sense of what's hearsay and what's fact, very very quickly.

johnisgood 2y ago
> you had heard or read somewhere I wish I could provide specific sources, but my information comes partly from Wikipedia and partly from conversations with others, most of whom hold pro-Ukrainian perspectives. There is significant sentiment against Russia and China in general, and I understand why (I am pretty much in the anti-China camp myself and I admittedly hold a bias against China). I have not even heard of "The Rubin Report" or "Tim Pool". I am somewhat familiar with Joe Rogan, but I have only watched one of his popular podcasts, the one featuring Elon Musk.
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- aguaviva 2y ago
  As you like, and what you're telling me about your information sources is quite helpful. The additional context I've provided (in regard to the initial causes of the conflict) is intended to be helpful, also.
  - johnisgood 2y ago
    > In fact to make this very simple for you: just completely forget everything you've read on the internet -- and just talk to people actually affected by the situation for a while. You'll definitely start to get a sense of what's hearsay and what's fact, very very quickly. Where can I find people who have lived through that situation as it unfolded? Are you one of those people by any chance? Talking to people from the region may indeed provide valuable insights and perspective that might not come through in articles, reports, or podcasts, but it is important to remember that personal experiences, while genuine, are often shaped by individual perspectives, biases, and incomplete information. We know that people living through a situation may not have access to all the facts, may interpret events differently, or may even unknowingly perpetuate misinformation they have encountered. Even those directly affected by events might be influenced by propaganda, local media narratives, or their own personal hardships, which can influence their understanding. This does not mean their accounts are worthless, however. We need to cross-check details, separate fact from emotion-driven narratives as much as possible. I believe it can be valuable for me to hear your personal perspective, for example.
    - aguaviva 2y ago
      First, if you ever get a chance to travel to Eastern Europe, you'll be very glad you did. Western Ukraine itself is actually reasonably safe (compared to many large cities in the world), though you should definitely do some research on your own (and have at least a few local contacts) before going over there. Most large cities in the West by now have substantial Ukrainian expat/refugee communities. In general they're pretty easy to find, and are quite friendly. Talking with people from other Eastern European countries (especially Poland and the Baltics) can be very helpful, also. As with people anywhere, some will be a bit nationalistic or have other axes to grind. But proportionally they are small in number. The vast majority are just regular people trying to get on with their lives, and make sense of the current insanity just as you and I. Are you one of those people by any chance? My own background is unimportant, but I will offer that I've spent significant amounts of time in countries affected by both Hitlerian and Stalinist (and other) dictatorships, and have had all kinds of conversations with people about these topics. Hearing personal stories about what their families went through in those years (virtually none were not affected in some way) really helps to size things up in the bigger picture, and avoid the charms and traps of highly ideological narratives. Finally, any amount of serious reading about pre-1999 (that is, pre-Putin) Cold War history, preferably by hard-nosed academic historians (and not pundits like Mearsheimer, Sachs et all; and unfortunately I have to say Chomsky also) can be very helpful also. (Technically the Cold War ended in by 1991, but another view is that it's still ongoing). I believe it can be valuable for me to hear your personal perspective, for example. I apprecite your forthrightness, and if I came across as browbeating or arrogant, I take it back and apologize.
- petre 2y ago
  Try this. https://understandingwar.org/ https://understandingwar.org/

johnisgood 2y ago

> you had heard or read somewhere I wish I could provide specific sources, but my information comes partly from Wikipedia and partly from conversations with others, most of whom hold pro-Ukrainian perspectives. There is significant sentiment against Russia and China in general, and I understand why (I am pretty much in the anti-China camp myself and I admittedly hold a bias against China). I have not even heard of "The Rubin Report" or "Tim Pool". I am somewhat familiar with Joe Rogan, but I have only watched one of his popular podcasts, the one featuring Elon Musk.

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aguaviva 2y ago
As you like, and what you're telling me about your information sources is quite helpful. The additional context I've provided (in regard to the initial causes of the conflict) is intended to be helpful, also.
- johnisgood 2y ago
  > In fact to make this very simple for you: just completely forget everything you've read on the internet -- and just talk to people actually affected by the situation for a while. You'll definitely start to get a sense of what's hearsay and what's fact, very very quickly. Where can I find people who have lived through that situation as it unfolded? Are you one of those people by any chance? Talking to people from the region may indeed provide valuable insights and perspective that might not come through in articles, reports, or podcasts, but it is important to remember that personal experiences, while genuine, are often shaped by individual perspectives, biases, and incomplete information. We know that people living through a situation may not have access to all the facts, may interpret events differently, or may even unknowingly perpetuate misinformation they have encountered. Even those directly affected by events might be influenced by propaganda, local media narratives, or their own personal hardships, which can influence their understanding. This does not mean their accounts are worthless, however. We need to cross-check details, separate fact from emotion-driven narratives as much as possible. I believe it can be valuable for me to hear your personal perspective, for example.
  - aguaviva 2y ago
    First, if you ever get a chance to travel to Eastern Europe, you'll be very glad you did. Western Ukraine itself is actually reasonably safe (compared to many large cities in the world), though you should definitely do some research on your own (and have at least a few local contacts) before going over there. Most large cities in the West by now have substantial Ukrainian expat/refugee communities. In general they're pretty easy to find, and are quite friendly. Talking with people from other Eastern European countries (especially Poland and the Baltics) can be very helpful, also. As with people anywhere, some will be a bit nationalistic or have other axes to grind. But proportionally they are small in number. The vast majority are just regular people trying to get on with their lives, and make sense of the current insanity just as you and I. Are you one of those people by any chance? My own background is unimportant, but I will offer that I've spent significant amounts of time in countries affected by both Hitlerian and Stalinist (and other) dictatorships, and have had all kinds of conversations with people about these topics. Hearing personal stories about what their families went through in those years (virtually none were not affected in some way) really helps to size things up in the bigger picture, and avoid the charms and traps of highly ideological narratives. Finally, any amount of serious reading about pre-1999 (that is, pre-Putin) Cold War history, preferably by hard-nosed academic historians (and not pundits like Mearsheimer, Sachs et all; and unfortunately I have to say Chomsky also) can be very helpful also. (Technically the Cold War ended in by 1991, but another view is that it's still ongoing). I believe it can be valuable for me to hear your personal perspective, for example. I apprecite your forthrightness, and if I came across as browbeating or arrogant, I take it back and apologize.
petre 2y ago
Try this. https://understandingwar.org/ https://understandingwar.org/