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I don’t really know if there’s a hard cutoff there. What separates a norm imposed by the parent then internalized by the child from a norm the child imposes ind

I don’t really know if there’s a hard cutoff there. What separates a norm imposed by the parent then internalized by the child from a norm the child imposes independently? Regardless. I think focus on norms might be a distraction. I should’ve avoided that terminology. We could instead frame it as a desire for bad outcomes for some minority by the majority that gets taken up by the bully. The reason that the majority doesn’t act on its own to realize these desires is what leads me to suppose there’s norms against, for example, violence or harm of the weak, which is why the violence needs to be displaced to dark places the crowd doesn’t see. It could be, though, that this internal external norm divide is important to the process. I.e. the majority is kept from its violence by externally imposed norms, so bullying is the consequence of friction between external norms (no fighting) and internal norms (hierarchy organization). Bullying then serves as a pressure release valve for these externally repressed desires.

martin-t 2y ago
I agree norms are a distraction. It's about incentives. Every group/organization has an incentive to look strong to outsiders. It therefore minimizes internal conflict because that makes it weak. It most importantly minimizes visible conflict because it makes it _look_ weak. However, every group/organization is just a collection of its members who each have different incentives. For some of those, it's gaining status/power. Status/power is mostly a zero-sum game, therefore gaining it requires attacking others (causing conflict). But causing visible conflict is damaging to the group so other members are likely to punish such behavior. As a result, the optimal strategy is to cause conduct conflict invisibly. Bullying is nothing more than such a parasitic individual trying to achieve status/power or in some cases simply satisfaction.

martin-t 2y ago

I agree norms are a distraction. It's about incentives. Every group/organization has an incentive to look strong to outsiders. It therefore minimizes internal conflict because that makes it weak. It most importantly minimizes visible conflict because it makes it _look_ weak. However, every group/organization is just a collection of its members who each have different incentives. For some of those, it's gaining status/power. Status/power is mostly a zero-sum game, therefore gaining it requires attacking others (causing conflict). But causing visible conflict is damaging to the group so other members are likely to punish such behavior. As a result, the optimal strategy is to cause conduct conflict invisibly. Bullying is nothing more than such a parasitic individual trying to achieve status/power or in some cases simply satisfaction.