6 ms·

"And most importantly, drive." This advice is disastrously wrong. That's not how YC interviews work. They're interviews, not presentations. We want random a

by pg 14y ago

"And most importantly, drive." This advice is disastrously wrong. That's not how YC interviews work. They're interviews, not presentations. We want random access to your thoughts, not to listen to a single path through them, prepared in advance. When people walk into the room with a predetermined pitch that they're determined to stick to, things usually end badly.

brlewis 14y ago
From what I've been learning about sales in the past year or two, this advice is disastrously wrong not only for YC interviews, but for sales in general. If you ever drive in a sales conversation, it should be to dig out what problem the prospect is interested in solving.
rexreed 14y ago
Wholeheartedly agree. You simply can't drive all the conversations that happen about your company and product. If your success is determined by your necessity to drive the conversations, you're going to lose badly. The interview with PG notwithstanding, you have a company to run and marketing and sales to tackle -- the latter two of which are notoriously hard to control the conversation. I see the YCombinator interview as a minimal test - if you can pass that barrier, then you have a chance at possibly getting your customers to understand what you have and its value. But if you can't, then it's going to be tough.
- mindcrime 14y ago
  I see the YCombinator interview as a minimal test - if you can pass that barrier, then you have a chance at possibly getting your customers to understand what you have and its value. Disclaimer: I've never been through a YC interview. I don't think that's an apt comparison. Pg and the YC crew, as smart, insightful and interesting as they are, are still a very small group of people, compared to the world of customers out there. It's entirely possible that you could fail a YC interview for whatever mysterious reason (maybe pg was having a bad day, maybe something to do with pre-existing (and unconscious) biases, maybe you were having a bad day) and still do fine at getting customers to understand what you do and it's value. In some ways, the YC interview may even be a higher bar: It's automatically an extra stressful situation, and you're dealing with some "type A" personality types who feel some need to control the interview, and you go in knowing you're limited to 10 minutes or whatever. When you're out talking to customers, you may well find yourself in a lower stress situation, with people who aren't necessarily trying to challenge you, etc. And I think this is borne out by the fact that there are groups who failed to get into YC, who went on to be successful.
  - rexreed 14y ago
    Yes, that is correct. I probably should have qualified it as you did, but you are right. I commented down below here somewhere that the whole idea of Lean Startup / Customer Development is to test your ideas and hypotheses with actual customers who are feeling the pain. This does bring up the idea then that a YC pitch is a whole animal unto itself. I wouldn't have enough experience to know what the main differences are between a YC and a customer pitch, but as you mention here, in the one case you are presenting your story and value proposition to customers who would be personally interested in the solution and directly feel the pain and in the other case to someone who is managing a portfolio of startup companies and evaluating for "fit" and "merit". Those words are in quotes because I don't know what those measures are specifically for YC, and there are likely many other considerations. I've commented about how the VC process is likewise totally screwed up with investors who neither feel the pain nor totally understand the markets and wield far too much power in the form of the checkbook. AND they underperform the markets in any case.
Evernoob 14y ago
Sounds like if they got a second go at it they still would have muffed it. Bad times for Rocketr.
- drupeek 14y ago
  How so? We just learned a ton by way of this thread. I would say that's a huge win for Rocketr.
  - rexreed 14y ago
    That's a very good attitude - you can never lose if you learn a valuable lesson and keep on trucking. You only fail if you give up. Somehow I don't see that happening ;)
  - prawn 14y ago
    I think they mean if you'd had a second chance prior to reading the comments (on HN or your blog). Just based on the blog entry, I agree. I read through a couple of times and still didn't know what the product was or if I needed it. I did like the design though. Would've liked to have seen product screenshots to see how that carried through to the interface.
drupeek 14y ago
"We want random access to your thoughts, not to listen to a single path through them, prepared in advance." You can have both. Without having true insight into exactly what information you hope to take away in 10 minutes, I would think that a cohesiveness to the order of the information, the pain felt by the potential customer, and a picture of that customer - are all valuable inputs. My suggestion is that startups put that information in order themselves.
- rexreed 14y ago
  Isn't that done in the application process? Assuming the applications are read and prepared carefully?
  - drupeek 14y ago
    It is. But it's widely assumed that they won't remember the application at all by the time of the interview.
    - djcapelis 14y ago
      > But it's widely assumed that they won't remember the application at all by the time of the interview. Really? They're calling you in for an interview and they don't have your application in front of them and haven't refreshed their memory? YC gets results, so I guess if it works it works, but I find it surprising that the assumption is they're going to be unprepared like that?
      - drupeek 14y ago
        There is only a minute of deliberation between interviews which isn't enough time to pull out the next application and refresh on it before the next interview is scheduled to begin.
        djcapelis 14y ago
        Hmm, that led me to several assumptions that I'm not sure I would make without that information. Seems interesting. Thank you for sharing.
larrys 14y ago
"walk into the room with a predetermined pitch that they're determined to stick to, things usually end badly." True for sales (as I see someone else below also points out). I'm reminded of a time in the past where I was purchasing a high end typesetter. 6 figure purchase in today's dollars. The salesman kept hitting on the point of the large font collection that the company had over and over again. I kept saying "what's really important to me is your service program". I couldn't have been any clearer than that. (He didn't have to dig for the hot buttons - I delivered them to him on a silver platter).
- drupeek 14y ago
  I definitely agree with this: "Walk into the room with a predetermined pitch that they're determined to stick to, things usually end badly." In my experience, you need to be nimble. But I also think you need to start the conversation somewhere.
  - einhverfr 14y ago
    You also need to have a clear understanding of what you are trying to communicate. One thing I am thinking about is the idea of a long sales pitch prepared (generally) and the actual sales pitch being essentially random access to it.
mindcrime 14y ago
We want random access to your thoughts, not to listen to a single path through them, prepared in advance. OK, obviously this is a continuum, and not a binary thing. But why "random?" Wouldn't you think there is some value in giving the startup founders the chance to present things in the way that makes sense to them, before starting with the grilling? Or is the case that you actually do that ( that point wasn't entirely clear from TFA)?
- Robin_Message 14y ago
  I believe Paul is using "random" (in particular, "random access") in the programming sense of "arbitrary" – the interview is there to dig deeper into the bits they are interested in/concerned about.
  - pg 14y ago
    Yes. As opposed to sequential access. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random_access http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random_access
    - stcredzero 14y ago
      Is there any benefit in a cache? What penalty is there for a cache miss? (Analogy: rehearsed points, needing to say "I'll have to get back to you.")
      - RegEx 14y ago
        This is why you don't use analogies when speaking with hackers. We take them way too far ;)
        stcredzero 14y ago
        What about level 2 and 3 cache?
        14y ago
roguecoder 14y ago
The best way to explain something is to respond to your audience's reactions; if they are lost, either decide that point isn't important and get to the implications of it or try another tact. Responding to their reception makes your audience felt heard and validated as well as making it more likely they will actually understand what you are saying. It takes skill and practice, but when done well the difference is staggering. What you should be sure of is the underlying, abstract thing you are describing. You should know the story is "Snow White", even though this time the audience might not care about dwarves and might not be laughing at the funny squirrel bits, but is really interested in glass coffin construction. If you know your idea inside and out, it is easier to find the part of it that this audience right here is interested in, and you know what the important parts are that make the rest of it make sense. Ideally, you shouldn't have to plan answers ahead of time, because the answers are obvious. The less superficially you know your idea, the less work presentations are to put together.
nickler 14y ago
Best advice I ever heard on sales was that the best salespeople spend 25% of the time talking, 75% of the time listening. The YC interview is fast becoming a business testing benchmark for entrepreneurs, I'm seeing more and more entrpreneurs use it to test their pitches.
einhverfr 14y ago
Certainly sequential access is a bad thing when looking at essentially partnering with an investor (or partnering with a customer to meet their needs). I also recognize you may have the better reading of the article than me. But I think there is a form of driving that is important in conversations generally. If you ask me "what is it?" That's an invitation for me to drive you around a bit within certain limits. How I choose to answer that is a form of driving. If you ask me who needs it, I get to give you a brief tour of the market, the problems and what we are solving. In essence there is a difference to reacting to questions and seeing the questions as an invitation to act. I guess what I am getting at is that if the focus is on impressing the other individual that leads to reacting. If the focus is on showing you something cool, that leads to the action I am talking about.
Hitchhiker 14y ago
Its difficult to " drive " people as smart, well connected and funded as YC. If a team's in such elite position, there would be no explicit posturing required. Basically, quality revenue and traction is inversely proportional to number of questions asked by potential investors ( including YC ).
51Cards 14y ago
'When people walk into the room with a predetermined pitch that they're determined to stick to, things usually end badly.' Yes and no depending on where you place the emphasis. Predetermined pitches are not a bad thing... know what you do, your strengths, think it through and plan it ahead of time. Nothing wrong with that. The key part is "...that they're determined to stick to...". You have to know your material well enough to be willing and able to go off "course" wherever the client leads you to. That is where a successful presentation lies, in being able to adapt to the needs presented, not just spell them out as you see them.

by pg 14y ago

brlewis 14y ago

From what I've been learning about sales in the past year or two, this advice is disastrously wrong not only for YC interviews, but for sales in general. If you ever drive in a sales conversation, it should be to dig out what problem the prospect is interested in solving.

rexreed 14y ago

Wholeheartedly agree. You simply can't drive all the conversations that happen about your company and product. If your success is determined by your necessity to drive the conversations, you're going to lose badly. The interview with PG notwithstanding, you have a company to run and marketing and sales to tackle -- the latter two of which are notoriously hard to control the conversation. I see the YCombinator interview as a minimal test - if you can pass that barrier, then you have a chance at possibly getting your customers to understand what you have and its value. But if you can't, then it's going to be tough.

mindcrime 14y ago
I see the YCombinator interview as a minimal test - if you can pass that barrier, then you have a chance at possibly getting your customers to understand what you have and its value. Disclaimer: I've never been through a YC interview. I don't think that's an apt comparison. Pg and the YC crew, as smart, insightful and interesting as they are, are still a very small group of people, compared to the world of customers out there. It's entirely possible that you could fail a YC interview for whatever mysterious reason (maybe pg was having a bad day, maybe something to do with pre-existing (and unconscious) biases, maybe you were having a bad day) and still do fine at getting customers to understand what you do and it's value. In some ways, the YC interview may even be a higher bar: It's automatically an extra stressful situation, and you're dealing with some "type A" personality types who feel some need to control the interview, and you go in knowing you're limited to 10 minutes or whatever. When you're out talking to customers, you may well find yourself in a lower stress situation, with people who aren't necessarily trying to challenge you, etc. And I think this is borne out by the fact that there are groups who failed to get into YC, who went on to be successful.
- rexreed 14y ago
  Yes, that is correct. I probably should have qualified it as you did, but you are right. I commented down below here somewhere that the whole idea of Lean Startup / Customer Development is to test your ideas and hypotheses with actual customers who are feeling the pain. This does bring up the idea then that a YC pitch is a whole animal unto itself. I wouldn't have enough experience to know what the main differences are between a YC and a customer pitch, but as you mention here, in the one case you are presenting your story and value proposition to customers who would be personally interested in the solution and directly feel the pain and in the other case to someone who is managing a portfolio of startup companies and evaluating for "fit" and "merit". Those words are in quotes because I don't know what those measures are specifically for YC, and there are likely many other considerations. I've commented about how the VC process is likewise totally screwed up with investors who neither feel the pain nor totally understand the markets and wield far too much power in the form of the checkbook. AND they underperform the markets in any case.

Evernoob 14y ago

Sounds like if they got a second go at it they still would have muffed it. Bad times for Rocketr.

drupeek 14y ago
How so? We just learned a ton by way of this thread. I would say that's a huge win for Rocketr.
- rexreed 14y ago
  That's a very good attitude - you can never lose if you learn a valuable lesson and keep on trucking. You only fail if you give up. Somehow I don't see that happening ;)
- prawn 14y ago
  I think they mean if you'd had a second chance prior to reading the comments (on HN or your blog). Just based on the blog entry, I agree. I read through a couple of times and still didn't know what the product was or if I needed it. I did like the design though. Would've liked to have seen product screenshots to see how that carried through to the interface.

drupeek 14y ago

"We want random access to your thoughts, not to listen to a single path through them, prepared in advance." You can have both. Without having true insight into exactly what information you hope to take away in 10 minutes, I would think that a cohesiveness to the order of the information, the pain felt by the potential customer, and a picture of that customer - are all valuable inputs. My suggestion is that startups put that information in order themselves.

rexreed 14y ago
Isn't that done in the application process? Assuming the applications are read and prepared carefully?
- drupeek 14y ago
  It is. But it's widely assumed that they won't remember the application at all by the time of the interview.
  - djcapelis 14y ago
    > But it's widely assumed that they won't remember the application at all by the time of the interview. Really? They're calling you in for an interview and they don't have your application in front of them and haven't refreshed their memory? YC gets results, so I guess if it works it works, but I find it surprising that the assumption is they're going to be unprepared like that?
    - drupeek 14y ago
      There is only a minute of deliberation between interviews which isn't enough time to pull out the next application and refresh on it before the next interview is scheduled to begin.
      - djcapelis 14y ago
        Hmm, that led me to several assumptions that I'm not sure I would make without that information. Seems interesting. Thank you for sharing.

larrys 14y ago

"walk into the room with a predetermined pitch that they're determined to stick to, things usually end badly." True for sales (as I see someone else below also points out). I'm reminded of a time in the past where I was purchasing a high end typesetter. 6 figure purchase in today's dollars. The salesman kept hitting on the point of the large font collection that the company had over and over again. I kept saying "what's really important to me is your service program". I couldn't have been any clearer than that. (He didn't have to dig for the hot buttons - I delivered them to him on a silver platter).

drupeek 14y ago
I definitely agree with this: "Walk into the room with a predetermined pitch that they're determined to stick to, things usually end badly." In my experience, you need to be nimble. But I also think you need to start the conversation somewhere.
- einhverfr 14y ago
  You also need to have a clear understanding of what you are trying to communicate. One thing I am thinking about is the idea of a long sales pitch prepared (generally) and the actual sales pitch being essentially random access to it.

mindcrime 14y ago

We want random access to your thoughts, not to listen to a single path through them, prepared in advance. OK, obviously this is a continuum, and not a binary thing. But why "random?" Wouldn't you think there is some value in giving the startup founders the chance to present things in the way that makes sense to them, before starting with the grilling? Or is the case that you actually do that ( that point wasn't entirely clear from TFA)?

Robin_Message 14y ago
I believe Paul is using "random" (in particular, "random access") in the programming sense of "arbitrary" – the interview is there to dig deeper into the bits they are interested in/concerned about.
- pg 14y ago
  Yes. As opposed to sequential access. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random_access http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random_access
  - stcredzero 14y ago
    Is there any benefit in a cache? What penalty is there for a cache miss? (Analogy: rehearsed points, needing to say "I'll have to get back to you.")
    - RegEx 14y ago
      This is why you don't use analogies when speaking with hackers. We take them way too far ;)
      - stcredzero 14y ago
        What about level 2 and 3 cache?
        14y ago

roguecoder 14y ago

The best way to explain something is to respond to your audience's reactions; if they are lost, either decide that point isn't important and get to the implications of it or try another tact. Responding to their reception makes your audience felt heard and validated as well as making it more likely they will actually understand what you are saying. It takes skill and practice, but when done well the difference is staggering. What you should be sure of is the underlying, abstract thing you are describing. You should know the story is "Snow White", even though this time the audience might not care about dwarves and might not be laughing at the funny squirrel bits, but is really interested in glass coffin construction. If you know your idea inside and out, it is easier to find the part of it that this audience right here is interested in, and you know what the important parts are that make the rest of it make sense. Ideally, you shouldn't have to plan answers ahead of time, because the answers are obvious. The less superficially you know your idea, the less work presentations are to put together.

nickler 14y ago

Best advice I ever heard on sales was that the best salespeople spend 25% of the time talking, 75% of the time listening. The YC interview is fast becoming a business testing benchmark for entrepreneurs, I'm seeing more and more entrpreneurs use it to test their pitches.

einhverfr 14y ago

Certainly sequential access is a bad thing when looking at essentially partnering with an investor (or partnering with a customer to meet their needs). I also recognize you may have the better reading of the article than me. But I think there is a form of driving that is important in conversations generally. If you ask me "what is it?" That's an invitation for me to drive you around a bit within certain limits. How I choose to answer that is a form of driving. If you ask me who needs it, I get to give you a brief tour of the market, the problems and what we are solving. In essence there is a difference to reacting to questions and seeing the questions as an invitation to act. I guess what I am getting at is that if the focus is on impressing the other individual that leads to reacting. If the focus is on showing you something cool, that leads to the action I am talking about.

Hitchhiker 14y ago

Its difficult to " drive " people as smart, well connected and funded as YC. If a team's in such elite position, there would be no explicit posturing required. Basically, quality revenue and traction is inversely proportional to number of questions asked by potential investors ( including YC ).

51Cards 14y ago

'When people walk into the room with a predetermined pitch that they're determined to stick to, things usually end badly.' Yes and no depending on where you place the emphasis. Predetermined pitches are not a bad thing... know what you do, your strengths, think it through and plan it ahead of time. Nothing wrong with that. The key part is "...that they're determined to stick to...". You have to know your material well enough to be willing and able to go off "course" wherever the client leads you to. That is where a successful presentation lies, in being able to adapt to the needs presented, not just spell them out as you see them.