6 ms·

Opening with "Rocketr is a bottom-up approach to knowledge management" - this is an entirely useless fluff sentence, tells nobody anything, doesn't provide a us

Opening with "Rocketr is a bottom-up approach to knowledge management" - this is an entirely useless fluff sentence, tells nobody anything, doesn't provide a useful frame of reference for what's coming next... I feel like the story here is that Mr. Peek needed a harsher critic when he was practicing. It's surprising how rarely we encounter good critics in our lives, everybody is focused on supporting and validating and has little practice at really challenging, reviewing, evaluating. I don't really see a problem with PG driving, I see a problem with not being ready to clearly and concisely differentiate. How is it different from Evernote and how is it different from Wikipedia should be completely anticipated ready-to-handle followups with great one-sentence answers that focus on the customers. I really don't like the alternate suggested approach because I'm not willing to grant the premise. Does work get done using team based tools? Work gets done to a shocking degree with email, excel, individual text editors, powerpoint... none of which are really 'team based'. My first thought is to go with something like "We help individuals collaborate by [whatever it is this thing does]" simply because that gets me a frame of reference faster and gets to talking about the interesting part sooner. But I'm still not sure what the interesting part is... so far this sounds more like Google Wave than anything else, and that alone might be enough to pass on backing the idea, under the "will fail because it's too hard to convince people they need this" category.

mgkimsal 14y ago
"It's surprising how rarely we encounter good critics in our lives, everybody is focused on supporting and validating and has little practice at really challenging, reviewing, evaluating." This is a bit off-topic but I was reading some time ago about Dan/Dani Bunten (of MULE fame, among other things), who had gender reassignment surgery. More info here: http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/Warning.html#Dani http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/Warning.html#Dani but this is what I was reminded of: "Despite following the rules and being as honest as I could with the medical folks at each stage, nobody stopped me and said "Are you honest to God absolutely sure this is the ONLY path for you?!" To the contrary, the voices were all cheerfully supportive of my decision." No one really challenged Dan at the time - possibly for fear of being labelled as a bigot or hater or whatever - and Dani later regretted the decision. Again, somewhat off-topic, but finding people to really challenge you (in a supporting way) is hard to do.
- debacle 14y ago
  Pathological skeptic here. Being critical, challenging ideas, and evaluating possibilities is something that makes people very uncomfortable and being honest can burn a lot of bridges, no matter how nice you are about it. We live in a very lonely world, and most people would rather shut their mouth and damn the consequences that have a healthy argument. It's cold comfort knowing you're right when no one wants to listen. We are born into a cruelly honest world. Children, before life beats them down, are cruelly honest. Somewhere around that first full time job and the first pregnancy scare, all of the piss is taken out of us. We don't want to be judged, so we don't judge others. It's a very sugar-coated world to live in.
  - nakkiel 14y ago
    Pathological bridge-burner here. Agreed.
  - sdoering 14y ago
    But the question stands in what a world one wants to live. In a world of sugarcoating, or in a world of truthful edges? Me, I would love the edges. But that's for everyone to decide for themselves.
    - jmduke 14y ago
      False dichotomy.
      - fatbird 14y ago
        Ego gratifying false dichotomy.
  - gawker 14y ago
    "We live in a very lonely world, and most people would rather shut their mouth and damn the consequences that have a healthy argument." And most people would rather not listen to criticism and prefer sugar-coating so it doesn't hurt their feelings, aspirations, dreams, etc.
sneak 14y ago
> It's surprising how rarely we encounter good critics in our lives Don't say that, or I'll keep being this way. :(
saturdaysaint 14y ago
Exactly. I'm actually fascinated with these kind of tools - I have logins for Workflowy, Trello, Asana, Evernote, Simplenote, Orchestra etc. - and I have no idea how this differentiates itself. What PG zeroed in on is the primary problem here - you are in a crowded category and you need to show a lot more awareness of competitive positioning.
- demachina 14y ago
  What category of smartphone apps and web apps isn't a crowded category at this point? I pity startups doing pitches in this space any more. There are simply too many of them doing the same things so it must be murder to speak to what you are doing and claim your are, in fact, "different". Most of the obvious and doable apps have been flogged past the dead horse stage at this point. Silicon valley kind of needs a new rule, until you come up with an innovative and original idea maybe you shouldn't do a startup. Doing a hundred permutations on the same ideas and hoping that either superior execution, a competitor buyout to get rid of you or a lucky streak of virility leads you to the promised land doesn't seem like the greatest strategy any more. I guess its still OK for the VC's like Y Combinator, as long as they have the patience to sift through them all, because the more pitches there are the more chances there are to find the ones that are unique, interesting or promise exceptional execution. The problem with web and smart phone apps is the barrier to entry is too low so everyone is doing them.
drupeek 14y ago
We definitely struggle with the same positioning challenge that Wave faced. In our first version of the product (at DemoCamp Toronto), the last comment made from the audience was "It's like Wave, but simpler." We're actively trying to give people a frame of reference that isn't based in "waves", but rather "notes" and "notebooks". The hope is that through a simple, widely understood analogy, a concept like Wave can gain traction.
- mikeleeorg 14y ago
  I'm sure there are loads of opinions on what it means to be compared to a well-known service. My experience is that it can help with the elevator pitch, just to put a picture in someone's head in a hopefully enticing way. Then, if they are interested, you can launch into your 5-min pitch where you explain how you're not just like that well-known service, but different and much better. I used to hate having my startup compared to another service (and I'm still not crazy about it), but I now find such an analogy to be a useful stepping stone in a conversation. I say this because Google Wave definitely evokes an image in my head, one that is high-tech, interactive, collaborative, and ultimately failed (which is not a bad thing; that's just what my head spits out). A note and notebook evokes an offline pad and paper notebook... or Evernote, for some reason. Whatever analogy you choose, hopefully you choose one that evokes the right kind of image and sentiment you want from your listener. Good luck!
einhverfr 14y ago
I agree with the first paragraph. I think it's good to start with "X is a solution to the problem of..." Onto the second paragraph though.... >I don't really see a problem with PG driving, I see a problem with not being ready to clearly and concisely differentiate. How is it different from Evernote and how is it different from Wikipedia should be completely anticipated ready-to-handle followups with great one-sentence answers that focus on the customers. The basic fact is, the more you can be the one driving the more you have the opportunity to ensure everything gets framed in the way you want it to be framed. In a recent discussion, Pg here emphasized the need to seem formidable. I would be surprised if people who seem formidable are not in control of the conversation. Look: You are going there to make a pitch. There's nothing wrong with answering questions, turning aside concerns, and the like. But you need to pitch your business, not be reactive. What this means is that the original author is right on one critical thing. he didn't know what story he wanted to tell. He didn't have a solidified, crystallized core he wanted to communicate. I keep coming back to listening to the oral arguments of the health care case and how Paul Clement addressed the concerns of justices. He'd listen to the question and come back with an answer that more or less let him pick up exactly where he left off and go where he wanted to go. Agree or disagree with him on the issues, he seemed formidable..... And he was totally in control of his message.
- drupeek 14y ago
  I think you've effectively captured the essence of my post.
wissler 14y ago
"It's surprising how rarely we encounter good critics in our lives,..." It's not surprising at all. Rarely do people really want to be corrected. Indeed, the more they need to be corrected, the less they want to hear about it.
rwallace 14y ago
I feel like the story here is that Mr. Peek needed a harsher critic when he was practicing. It's surprising how rarely we encounter good critics in our lives, everybody is focused on supporting and validating and has little practice at really challenging, reviewing, evaluating. Exactly, except the surprising part - it's logical enough, because people have an incentive to tell you what they think you want to hear. The thing that jumped out at me when reading the article was that I would have given them that feedback for a tenth of what they paid to visit Paul Graham. I wonder if there's a potential market for that service?

mgkimsal 14y ago

"It's surprising how rarely we encounter good critics in our lives, everybody is focused on supporting and validating and has little practice at really challenging, reviewing, evaluating." This is a bit off-topic but I was reading some time ago about Dan/Dani Bunten (of MULE fame, among other things), who had gender reassignment surgery. More info here: http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/Warning.html#Dani http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/Warning.html#Dani but this is what I was reminded of: "Despite following the rules and being as honest as I could with the medical folks at each stage, nobody stopped me and said "Are you honest to God absolutely sure this is the ONLY path for you?!" To the contrary, the voices were all cheerfully supportive of my decision." No one really challenged Dan at the time - possibly for fear of being labelled as a bigot or hater or whatever - and Dani later regretted the decision. Again, somewhat off-topic, but finding people to really challenge you (in a supporting way) is hard to do.

debacle 14y ago
Pathological skeptic here. Being critical, challenging ideas, and evaluating possibilities is something that makes people very uncomfortable and being honest can burn a lot of bridges, no matter how nice you are about it. We live in a very lonely world, and most people would rather shut their mouth and damn the consequences that have a healthy argument. It's cold comfort knowing you're right when no one wants to listen. We are born into a cruelly honest world. Children, before life beats them down, are cruelly honest. Somewhere around that first full time job and the first pregnancy scare, all of the piss is taken out of us. We don't want to be judged, so we don't judge others. It's a very sugar-coated world to live in.
- nakkiel 14y ago
  Pathological bridge-burner here. Agreed.
- sdoering 14y ago
  But the question stands in what a world one wants to live. In a world of sugarcoating, or in a world of truthful edges? Me, I would love the edges. But that's for everyone to decide for themselves.
  - jmduke 14y ago
    False dichotomy.
    - fatbird 14y ago
      Ego gratifying false dichotomy.
- gawker 14y ago
  "We live in a very lonely world, and most people would rather shut their mouth and damn the consequences that have a healthy argument." And most people would rather not listen to criticism and prefer sugar-coating so it doesn't hurt their feelings, aspirations, dreams, etc.

sneak 14y ago

> It's surprising how rarely we encounter good critics in our lives Don't say that, or I'll keep being this way. :(

saturdaysaint 14y ago

Exactly. I'm actually fascinated with these kind of tools - I have logins for Workflowy, Trello, Asana, Evernote, Simplenote, Orchestra etc. - and I have no idea how this differentiates itself. What PG zeroed in on is the primary problem here - you are in a crowded category and you need to show a lot more awareness of competitive positioning.

demachina 14y ago
What category of smartphone apps and web apps isn't a crowded category at this point? I pity startups doing pitches in this space any more. There are simply too many of them doing the same things so it must be murder to speak to what you are doing and claim your are, in fact, "different". Most of the obvious and doable apps have been flogged past the dead horse stage at this point. Silicon valley kind of needs a new rule, until you come up with an innovative and original idea maybe you shouldn't do a startup. Doing a hundred permutations on the same ideas and hoping that either superior execution, a competitor buyout to get rid of you or a lucky streak of virility leads you to the promised land doesn't seem like the greatest strategy any more. I guess its still OK for the VC's like Y Combinator, as long as they have the patience to sift through them all, because the more pitches there are the more chances there are to find the ones that are unique, interesting or promise exceptional execution. The problem with web and smart phone apps is the barrier to entry is too low so everyone is doing them.

drupeek 14y ago

We definitely struggle with the same positioning challenge that Wave faced. In our first version of the product (at DemoCamp Toronto), the last comment made from the audience was "It's like Wave, but simpler." We're actively trying to give people a frame of reference that isn't based in "waves", but rather "notes" and "notebooks". The hope is that through a simple, widely understood analogy, a concept like Wave can gain traction.

mikeleeorg 14y ago
I'm sure there are loads of opinions on what it means to be compared to a well-known service. My experience is that it can help with the elevator pitch, just to put a picture in someone's head in a hopefully enticing way. Then, if they are interested, you can launch into your 5-min pitch where you explain how you're not just like that well-known service, but different and much better. I used to hate having my startup compared to another service (and I'm still not crazy about it), but I now find such an analogy to be a useful stepping stone in a conversation. I say this because Google Wave definitely evokes an image in my head, one that is high-tech, interactive, collaborative, and ultimately failed (which is not a bad thing; that's just what my head spits out). A note and notebook evokes an offline pad and paper notebook... or Evernote, for some reason. Whatever analogy you choose, hopefully you choose one that evokes the right kind of image and sentiment you want from your listener. Good luck!

einhverfr 14y ago

I agree with the first paragraph. I think it's good to start with "X is a solution to the problem of..." Onto the second paragraph though.... >I don't really see a problem with PG driving, I see a problem with not being ready to clearly and concisely differentiate. How is it different from Evernote and how is it different from Wikipedia should be completely anticipated ready-to-handle followups with great one-sentence answers that focus on the customers. The basic fact is, the more you can be the one driving the more you have the opportunity to ensure everything gets framed in the way you want it to be framed. In a recent discussion, Pg here emphasized the need to seem formidable. I would be surprised if people who seem formidable are not in control of the conversation. Look: You are going there to make a pitch. There's nothing wrong with answering questions, turning aside concerns, and the like. But you need to pitch your business, not be reactive. What this means is that the original author is right on one critical thing. he didn't know what story he wanted to tell. He didn't have a solidified, crystallized core he wanted to communicate. I keep coming back to listening to the oral arguments of the health care case and how Paul Clement addressed the concerns of justices. He'd listen to the question and come back with an answer that more or less let him pick up exactly where he left off and go where he wanted to go. Agree or disagree with him on the issues, he seemed formidable..... And he was totally in control of his message.

drupeek 14y ago
I think you've effectively captured the essence of my post.

wissler 14y ago

"It's surprising how rarely we encounter good critics in our lives,..." It's not surprising at all. Rarely do people really want to be corrected. Indeed, the more they need to be corrected, the less they want to hear about it.

rwallace 14y ago

I feel like the story here is that Mr. Peek needed a harsher critic when he was practicing. It's surprising how rarely we encounter good critics in our lives, everybody is focused on supporting and validating and has little practice at really challenging, reviewing, evaluating. Exactly, except the surprising part - it's logical enough, because people have an incentive to tell you what they think you want to hear. The thing that jumped out at me when reading the article was that I would have given them that feedback for a tenth of what they paid to visit Paul Graham. I wonder if there's a potential market for that service?