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> or worry whether the locks will freeze up in the winter and have to de-ice them. A keyless entry is no better than a regular 'push to send unlock signal' fob

> or worry whether the locks will freeze up in the winter and have to de-ice them. A keyless entry is no better than a regular 'push to send unlock signal' fob in this regard. You have to go much further back for cars that require the key to be inserted into the door. You say you've only ever owned cars that don't have key-turn ignition, but doesn't that mean the advantages you listed are just assumptions? Having used both, I can personally say I have never considered key-turn ignition a problem or disadvantage. I've never lost a car key the same way I've never lost a phone which I also take out of my pocket to use. I know people who (for insurance compliance) must store their key inside a faraday box. So to use their keyless entry car they still have to "get the key out" anyway. Push button unlock and key-turn ignition are not vulnerable to those kind of attacks/thefts.

alias_neo 2y ago
> A keyless entry is no better than a regular 'push to send unlock signal' fob in this regard. You have to go much further back for cars that require the key to be inserted into the door. Apologies, this is what I meant by "keyless", perhaps I have my terminology mixed up. I can either walk up to my car and open the door by pulling on the handle (keyless?), or get the fob out of my bag/pocket/whatever and press the button, but there's really hardly ever a need to do the latter, unless I want to allow someone else to enter the car while I'm at a distance. I can then start it just by being in the car with the fob somewhere also in the car, but without having to have or touch or insert the key (fob), thus keyless(?). > You say you've only ever owned cars that don't have key-turn ignition, but doesn't that mean the advantages you listed are just assumptions? Not an assumption, I've driven plenty of key-lock and ignition cars, just not owned them. Again, my earlier terminology mix-up may have been the issue. The advantage I'm trying to address is the ability to unlock the car and start/stop and then lock it again, without having to have anything in my hands (but having something on my person). > I've never lost a car key the same way I've never lost a phone which I also take out of my pocket to use. I can't argue with that; I too have never lost a car key, but I'd argue that by never having to take it out of my pocket is perhaps somewhat contributing to that. > ... must store their key inside a faraday box. So to use their keyless entry car they still have to "get the key out" anyway. Push button unlock and key-turn ignition are not vulnerable to those kind of attacks/thefts I have to agree with you here, this is certainly one disadvantage, and is absolutely a concern of mine. At home you throw the fob in a faraday box rather than a drawer or on the side, so it's not a great amount of effort; while you're out and about it's a risk unless you're going to carry a faraday bag on your person (which I do not), so there is a chance someone could steal your car this way while you're sat/otherwise distracted but still fairly near your car. I'm not sure what the correct term is for this type of entry, but that's what I'm suggesting I prefer over a key I'd have to insert into the door and then into the ignition and turn, it's just more convenient. Conversely, if you lose one, it'll cost a few hundred £££s to replace rather than a cheap key, and there's the risks of high-tech theft, so it's not without its downsides.

alias_neo 2y ago

> A keyless entry is no better than a regular 'push to send unlock signal' fob in this regard. You have to go much further back for cars that require the key to be inserted into the door. Apologies, this is what I meant by "keyless", perhaps I have my terminology mixed up. I can either walk up to my car and open the door by pulling on the handle (keyless?), or get the fob out of my bag/pocket/whatever and press the button, but there's really hardly ever a need to do the latter, unless I want to allow someone else to enter the car while I'm at a distance. I can then start it just by being in the car with the fob somewhere also in the car, but without having to have or touch or insert the key (fob), thus keyless(?). > You say you've only ever owned cars that don't have key-turn ignition, but doesn't that mean the advantages you listed are just assumptions? Not an assumption, I've driven plenty of key-lock and ignition cars, just not owned them. Again, my earlier terminology mix-up may have been the issue. The advantage I'm trying to address is the ability to unlock the car and start/stop and then lock it again, without having to have anything in my hands (but having something on my person). > I've never lost a car key the same way I've never lost a phone which I also take out of my pocket to use. I can't argue with that; I too have never lost a car key, but I'd argue that by never having to take it out of my pocket is perhaps somewhat contributing to that. > ... must store their key inside a faraday box. So to use their keyless entry car they still have to "get the key out" anyway. Push button unlock and key-turn ignition are not vulnerable to those kind of attacks/thefts I have to agree with you here, this is certainly one disadvantage, and is absolutely a concern of mine. At home you throw the fob in a faraday box rather than a drawer or on the side, so it's not a great amount of effort; while you're out and about it's a risk unless you're going to carry a faraday bag on your person (which I do not), so there is a chance someone could steal your car this way while you're sat/otherwise distracted but still fairly near your car. I'm not sure what the correct term is for this type of entry, but that's what I'm suggesting I prefer over a key I'd have to insert into the door and then into the ignition and turn, it's just more convenient. Conversely, if you lose one, it'll cost a few hundred £££s to replace rather than a cheap key, and there's the risks of high-tech theft, so it's not without its downsides.