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I am an Indian living in Berlin. I always am surprised at the price differences between the countries. A new small SUV in India (e.g. Citroen Basalt) with all b
by rockyj 2y ago
I am an Indian living in Berlin. I always am surprised at the price differences between the countries. A new small SUV in India (e.g. Citroen Basalt) with all bells and whistles is less than 10k Euros (https://www.carwale.com/citroen-cars/basalt/ https://www.carwale.com/citroen-cars/basalt/) and here in Germany I cannot get a decent second hand car for less than 20K.
On the other hand, in India any car is probably unusable after 10-15 years, and here in Germany people buy a car for life.
- 627467 2y agoWith all the "green" restrictions in place in many european cities - forbidding cars as recent as 2005 to enter them - cars are only for life if you live in the middle of nowhere or have a short life
- OtherShrezzing 2y agoYou can usually retrofit a pre-2005 vehicle for a thousand or so euros. Approx the cost of the annual maintenance on a vehicle of that age, and certainly far less than the cost of a new or used car (either financial cost or embodied emissions cost).
- mdp2021 2y ago> You can usually retrofit a pre-2005 vehicle for a thousand or so euros Not in every Country.
- pjc50 2y agoThat was nearly twenty years ago, a very high lifetime for a car.
- ricardobayes 2y agoThe Dacia Sandero starts at around 13k in Europe and by all means a pretty good car. I have a friend who bought one new and told me it has been very reliable.
- WeaselNo7 2y agoThe Dacia Sandero unfortunately gets a 2 star Euro NCAP rating (which is typical for Dacia cars). Not something I personally would feel safe putting my family into!
- Radim 2y ago> Not something I personally would feel safe putting my family into! From https://www.topgear.com/long-term-car-reviews/dacia/jogger/report-5 https://www.topgear.com/long-term-car-reviews/dacia/jogger/r... > The Jogger returned the equivalent of a four-star rating for adult occupant crash protection, and three stars for child occupants. Plenty respectable scores. The Jogger lost marks, however, for its lack of active safety equipment: it doesn’t offer lane-keep assist, pedestrian detection, or seatbelt warnings for the rearmost row. [0] > The overall NCAP rating is dictated by the lowest score in any individual category, hence that headline one-star result for the Jogger. Many people actively disable gimmicks like "lane-keep assist", so YMMV on such damning "1 star Euro NCAP rating".
- rusticpenn 2y agoThe roads, weather, driving habits etc in India play a role.
- theshrike79 2y agoIt's because we don't want to end up like this: https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/mumbais-air-quality-deteriorates-to-poor-thick-smog-engulfs-city-101731902657971.html https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/mumbais-air-qualit... Most of the extra price goes into emissions reduction.
- tock 2y agoIndia's AQI issues mostly stem from crop burning. AFAIK cars have to comply with BS6 which is pretty similar to Euro 6.
- jklowden 2y agoFunny thing: during the pandemic, when no one was driving, New Delhi’s air cleared so much that the Himalayas could be seen for the first time in decades. If pollution is caused by "crop burning", why is it that the worst pollution is in cities?
- sangeeth96 2y agoThere are more factors than people not driving during those times: > The phenomenon is made possible by a dramatic improvement in air quality in recent weeks, after industries shut down, cars came off the road and airlines canceled flights in response to the coronavirus pandemic. > Delhi saw up to a 44% reduction in PM10 air pollution levels on the first day of its restrictions, India’s Central Pollution Control Board found. The PM10 standard measures airborne particulates 10 micrometers or smaller in diameter. https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/himalayas-visible-lockdown-india-scli-intl/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/himalayas-visible-loc...
- plastic_bag 2y ago> If pollution is caused by "crop burning", why is it that the worst pollution is in cities? The worst pollution is not in any cities. It's a problem specific to North Indian cities and regions in Pakistan. No city in South India is even remotely as polluted as the NCR.
- acchow 2y ago> and here in Germany people buy a car for life The average age of a car in Germany is 10 years so I guess this was sarcasm?
- rockyj 2y agoNo sarcasm. In India cars are pretty much unusable after 15 years due to wear and tear, not to mention laws like - https://www.hizuno.com/blog/motor/15-years-old-car-rules-in-india https://www.hizuno.com/blog/motor/15-years-old-car-rules-in-... (tldr: cars older than 15 years have to be dumped) In Germany, people may upgrade from their own will, but even from my window I can see a dozens cars parked which are more than 10 years old. Not to mention a new Merc or VW can probably be stil working well in 20 years (for example see autoscout24 for Mercs from 2014 still selling for 15K).
- fwip 2y agoSure, but "for life" could reasonably be expected to cover 50 or 60 years, if you buy your first car as a young adult.
- teractiveodular 2y agoHow does that square with Ambassador taxis still being a thing in some cities? Do they just look ancient?
- rajaravivarma_r 2y agoI have rarely seen a car becoming unusable after 15 years. I have seen taxis with more than 400,000 KM on the odo. Not that they never had issues, but they are pretty much usable if you replace parts. The 15 year car rule is only applicable for New Delhi NCR Region. You still need to obtain fitness certificate for vehicles every 5 years after the 15th year, but they need not be dumped as long as it passes the evaluation.
- publicola1990 2y agoAnd it could even cheaper since like about 40% of price of many cars in India is reportedly taxes and duties.
- devsda 2y agoIts actually sometimes more than 40% and that's not even for luxury cars. Here's[1] an example for a car costing a million INR, taxes are more than 300K. That's not the final landing price. Final price adds up extra road tax component that is anywhere from 13 to 17%(or even more) which is calculated on top of the 1 Million. In case you missed it, that's tax on tax i.e. double taxation! Some courts have ruled it illegal but majority of state governments act ignorant and just continue the practice. 1. https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian-car-scene/235811-query-tax-component-cars-ex-showroom-price.html#post5047833 https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian-car-scene/235811-query...
- lnsru 2y agoPeople used to buy a car for life. These cars from the past were built differently and made a good name for German cars. Golf 4 is a legend. Now it’s crap made for 150000 miles and then time to buy a new one. All brands the same! Source: buddy from Bosch from ECU department sharing the requirements for modern car. And recent sad personal experience.
- f1shy 2y agoThe requirements from all auto makers, not only for ECU, but every single part is 10 Years/ 100k km for low end, 15 Years 150k km for high end. I think that is no secret. And that is 100% the experience if you buy a car, there is a point where the maintenance per year is more than the value of the car itself. At that point the car is effectively 0 EUR value. I hear in USA the Toyotas hold much longer... I'm not sure why, if it is true, and what are the conditions.
- bobim 2y agoThe maintenance must be seen as per the service value, not the car value. If it's in good condition then maintain it and drive until pistons goes through the head. Keep this gray energy off the scrapeyard.
- wil421 2y agoI’ve take a mid 2000s Corolla and a 4Runner to 250k. The Corolla was still running with a slight radiator leak. The 4Runner had a transmission banging noise I didn’t want to fix. No salt on my roads and little to no rust on either.
- itsoktocry 2y ago>but every single part is 10 Years/ 100k km for low end, 15 Years 150k km for high end Every car I've owned has gone well over 150,000 km without anything but regular maintenance. It's really hard to kill a modern engine. Yes, things wear out and need to be replaced.
- itsoktocry 2y ago>People used to buy a car for life. When? The 1940s? We know this isn't true, based on the existence of older cars, today. I'd put money on a barebones car of today outlasting nearly anything of the past.
- f1shy 2y ago>and here in Germany people buy a car for life. In which Germany are you living? People change car pretty regularly, especially because of the maintenance cost for passing the TÜV. All small cars sold have distribution belt soaked in oil, so you have to change before 10 years, and by that time the cost of changing the belt is more than the car value.
- wil421 2y agoFor anyone wondering, a distribution belt is the timing chair (or timing belt in this example). GM has a Duramax 3.0 diesel engine with a timing belt instead of a chain and it’s on the back. People were so angry GM put out a warranty for 5 year 100k miles. I’ve seen tear downs on YouTube and the Duramax people are livid about a belt.
- technothrasher 2y agoI think we're getting a little confused here. The Duramax 3.0 diesel has a timing chain, not a belt. The belt people usually bitch about is the oil pump belt.
- dchest 2y agoI think the comment referred to wet timing belt https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SASSFjIt5I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SASSFjIt5I
- hengheng 2y agoThe median car in Germany is 12 years old or so, almost the same as in similar countries. That's a result of cars simply lasting longer than they used to. First owner is usually a lease customer (company car), second owner will keep it for much longer, third or fourth owner will run the car into the ground, and it'll almost always be crushed in Eastern Europe. Guessing grandparent is seeing a lot of second and third owner cars.
- ponector 2y agoWith all bells and whistles Citroen Basalt is 15k euro, which is still cheap. But for 15k euro you can get a new Citroen C3 in Germany as well, but with basic configuration. >>in Germany I cannot get a decent second hand car for less than 20K. You cannot compare Indian Citroen with German Mercedes.
- Intermernet 2y agoMercedes have a pretty terrible reputation these days. A mechanic friend of mine rates them as one of the most unreliable new cars you can buy.
- adrianN 2y agoThe average age of cars on the road in Germany is almost certainly lower than 15 years. I believe I remember it was something like eight years.
- neoromantique 2y ago>here in Germany I cannot get a decent second hand car for less than 20K. Then you're doing something very wrong. There are literally thousands of cars for sale that are reliable and well maintained for half that. Hell, these days even a sub 1K eur can get you by in a pinch, if you choose carefully enough.
- Hendrikto 2y ago> here in Germany I cannot get a decent second hand car for less than 20K. What are you talking about? I bought my used Opel Corsa with 50k km for 2200€. Driven it for 60k km since, without problem. So it was definitely “decent”.